To ask how you justify being with a non-maintenance payer?

[ohreallyohreallyoh]

I realise I will be accused of being goady but that is not my intention. I ask the question in all seriousness. If your partner/brother/son/nephew/friend (and female equivalents, of course) and you are aware that no maintenance is paid towards the upbringing of children, what is it for you that makes that OK?

My ex has moved in (again - 4th time!) with his girlfriend recently and she seems perfectly reasonable and my kids really like her. But the fact remains that as a self employed businessman, he pays no child maintenance whatsoever. It has not been an issue - I earn OK and my children want for nothing, but the bitter taste it leaves and the sense of injustice is difficult to shake. I suspect she doesn’t know, and that he has sold her the ‘perfect father’ vs. ‘crazy ex’ story which she has no reason to question (or chooses not to question).

So, under what circumstances is it reasonable?

Women do this too. My husband paid his ex more thank CMS required payments for years. Since DSS came to live with us permanently 4 years ago she hasn't paid a penny and at one point we found out she was claiming child benefit for him. Husband doesn't want to rock the boat and as we're not desperate for the money he won't pursue it.

It can work both ways. In my humble opinion, these situations are often about the dynamics between the parents and punishing each other rather than the best interests of the child. Ultimately, to not put your child's needs first stinks.

My husband was denied being able to see his DS for around 2 years as he wasn't paying what the mother felt was an acceptable level of financial support by an informal arrangement. He had to go to court more than once to get access, CMA and has had to limit the amount of contact with his son due to the mother making allegations about the way he was treated in our home when the system was put in place. We've had police and legal involvement. Parental alienation I believe it's called. Poor kid - he's the one that suffers the most in the long run.

My DP exw has officially stopped paying maintenance now. It's been sporadic at best last 2 years but then the bf text my dp to say that he wasn't getting any effing money from them and it was his money and to eff off essentially. She's totally fine with the fact that I stump up for the extras and pay all the bills to keep her kids warm and fed. Hey ho.

How much was your husband paying sunny?

I couldn't be with anyone who thought it was ok to bring children into the workplace and not support them.

However given the number of both RP and NRPs that don't pay for their children but who have partners there are obviously a lot who think it's perfectly fine be it as their parent or the new partner.

Society should shame those that choose to have children and don't pay for them but it no longer does sadly so more and more do it.

NewLove I am trying to imagine a marriage ceremony where the wife "covers her backside with a ring" and I want to be one of the witnesses

Why do women accept shit men? For the same reasons you did, presumably

To be fair, my ex had no children when I met him so there was no point of comparison. We did also discuss, before having children, what would happen if we were to break up and needless to say, that discussion didn’t involve years of maintenance avoidance. Hindsight (and therapy) has put the relationship into,perspective for me from many points of view but this one I have been able to understand.

Substantial amounts every month and over double what CMA recommend even at the limited contact we have now and based on my husbands earnings. We had more contact at that time as well

Yeah that's a bit of a crap statement really. My now ex has supported his two kids - and the two kids he brought up for years whilst in a relationship - without any issues. Also has good relationships with his exes. Nothing screams 'wanker' to look at his past.

Cue me now 14 weeks pregnant & he's fucked off without a word, not interested in this baby. So easy to make silly statements

We had a friend who stopped paying maintenance for his DD when the mother cut contact (with very good reason, he put the child in considerable danger). His excuse was that if he wasn't going to see her then he didn't see why he should pay. He also viewed it very much as giving his ex money. He never viewed it as going toward the upkeep of his child. We stopped speaking not long after that. He has since gone on to have at least two more children and has no contact with any of them and pays zero maintenance. The last I heard of him he was spouting off about leaving the country so he didn't have to pay. He's a prize tit and I can't believe I was ever friends with him.

@MorrisZapp yes I can smell a hint of misogyny, too!^ You want to blame women for making 'shit' choices when in reality most of us became involved with these men before^ they had children.
The new partners know the facts and yet still go along with this low-life behaviour. That's the difference. That's what baffles decent women. I wouldn't have touched my ex with a barge pole if I'd have known what I do now. Just like I instantly dismiss men who clearly don't have much involvement in their children's lives whether it's financial or otherwise.
Of course the onus is on the man, and it's no one else's fault or responsibility, but OP wasn't looking to blame women!

Epic italic fail there, but you can see what I mean.

DP doesn’t pay a set “maintenance” as such. We cover a variety of other costs for things for the kids instead of a lump sum going to their Mum each week. This works better for the children. We also are a bit separate with our finances. So I’m not necessarily aware of how much is he paying.

It isn't the job of women to make sure other people's husbands toe the line

I struggle to know how to answer this. No, it isn’t. But where does the responsibility for bringing up children begin and end? If we accept the abandonment of children as a society, where does that leave us? If we prosecute a parent for abuse and neglect when the child is in the parent’s care, why do we not prosecute those who abuse and neglect by walking away or who deny financial responsibility? Where does responsibility for this abandonment start? The individual alone or is there wider responsibility? I saw someone suggest once that it should be like drink-driving or smoking in an enclosed public space. Both once universally accepted, now enough to cause problems in friendships and relationships.

The issue isn’t for women to police alone. But surely we shouldn’t just shrug and move on because it doesn’t affect us. Isn’t the systematic abuse of children everyone’s responsibility?

Twoshades, does that include money towards utilities, rent/mortgage/cost of living? Or does he think buying clothes and stuff counts? I hope not, I generally think that men who prefer to see where the money is going are controlling.

This works better for the children

In what way? How?

It's not just men that abandon or shirk their responsibilities to children. I resent that people imply it's only men that do this!

What I really don't understand is why this level of child neglect is state sanctioned. Why are parents not forced to pay for their children? Why is it not a criminal offence (punishable by fines and in extreme cases jail) not to? Why are non payers not prosecuted?

DH exW has never paid a penny towards my DSC.

As she has told them she never wants to see them and that they were a mistake, I doubt she ever will.

Why is it (hypothetically) the new partners business. My ex has a new partner. He doesn’t pay and never has. But why is that her business?

I have just received 2 x £50 payments after 5.5 years. It has taken a liability order and the threat of another one. They are still doing ongoing work to try and track down his bank account as I suspect he has enough in there to recover the amount he owes. It's disgraceful behaviour and in the 9 years before I was married, there were times my mum had to lend me money as I was so broke. Maintenance would have really helped. Before that 5.5 years, he often didn't pay either. Disgraceful that people just assume that their ex will be able to foot the bill whilst they walk away scot free.

Elchan in OP's opening post, she asked about female equivalents aswell. Why are people tripping over themselves to say it's not just men? No one said otherwise.
One of the worst cases I know of is my ex best friend who hasn't seen her child since she broke up with ex. Child then got cancer, and she still will have nothing to do with him. It's disgusting and mind-boggling.
It's not as commonplace as men upping and leaving without a backwards glance, though.

Whenever women on MN talk about their deadbeat partners, they've always swallowed a story about the ex being loaded (evidence: she goes to the hairdresser and always, always, she will have false nails) and just wanting maintenance out of spite.

I don't know if they're thick or deluded. Or both?

A lot of NRPs lie, or at least twist the truth, and that's got to be the biggest factor in why people around them don't judge them harshly. But i think the fact that we have a benefit system that will financially support children when their parents don't gives people an excuse. Wrongly I might add, and I'm not saying I agree with it at all, but it is something I've heard. NRPs justify not paying because the RP isn't working and the children are being paid for by the state anyway, so they think they shouldn't have to pay because the other parent isn't paying either. Or they think the RP is being given enough money to provide for the child so they don't need to feel bad because it's not like the child is going without.

I can see why maintenance isn't taken into account for benefits, but I don't think it helps increase the societal attitude that we all should be financially responsible for the children we create. The CMS needs a lots more power and resources than it has.

How much was your husband paying sunny?

Children aren’t pay per view. Access is the childs right, not the parents.

My dh is a low earner (vocational job he loves). He had that job when he met her, and for the 15 years of their relationship. Just because she kicked him out he isn’t going to suddenly be able to put his hands on £750/month cm when his take home is £1300.

He always paid cm. Always. But an amount that according to many isn’t “enough”. And probably isn’t when the mum likes to buy them designer clothers and they all have iphone 7’s and go on holidays. Up to her what she buys, of course, but he couldn’t pay for it when they were married, so why is he expected to pay 1/2 after they split?