To ask how you justify being with a non-maintenance payer?

[ohreallyohreallyoh]

I realise I will be accused of being goady but that is not my intention. I ask the question in all seriousness. If your partner/brother/son/nephew/friend (and female equivalents, of course) and you are aware that no maintenance is paid towards the upbringing of children, what is it for you that makes that OK?

My ex has moved in (again - 4th time!) with his girlfriend recently and she seems perfectly reasonable and my kids really like her. But the fact remains that as a self employed businessman, he pays no child maintenance whatsoever. It has not been an issue - I earn OK and my children want for nothing, but the bitter taste it leaves and the sense of injustice is difficult to shake. I suspect she doesn’t know, and that he has sold her the ‘perfect father’ vs. ‘crazy ex’ story which she has no reason to question (or chooses not to question).

So, under what circumstances is it reasonable?

This is a good question and one I think of myself. My ex has remarried, he paid maintenance for a couple of years but nothing since our ds was around 7 or 8.
He has not seen his son for 10years, he married his new wife without his son meeting her. She married him without meeting his son - what is the deal with that?!
I suspect he has told her I am the bitch from hell and I stopped him seeing his son or that I turned his son against him. None of that is true.
Also his son is 27. Hasn't lived with me for four years. He doesn't live that far away. Why on earth would you think someone who didn't even manage to arrange for you to meet their son would make good marriage material?!

Is it any different from sleeping with someone else's OH? People come up with reasons that seem sufficient to them at the time.

Whilst we were together, my ex found out he had a child from a previous relationship but decided 'Not to get involved ' - I lost all respect for him and we split up.

I do think loads of people (mostly women) just have no clue really as their partners probably tell them all kinds of lies about it all.

Now my Ex, but I got together with my ExH knowing he was a good Dad to his DD. He paid maintenance on the dot, and more. He bought clothes for her, took her on lovely days out and could not be faulted where his DD was concerned.

He had an affair, left me for the OW and I was not worried about how he would treat our DD, as I had seen how he had been with his eldest DD.

He paid me regular money, which was an amount we agreed on for day to day stuff, he also paid half of school uniform, trips, clubs music lessons etc, on top of what he gave me every month.

This worked well for me, as I didn't get the 'I won't give you money to waste', as most of it was accounted for, he gave me a regular amount to genuinely cover DDs home costs, then shared the other expenses.

I got a reasonable payment agreement because he had done that with his first wife. If he had been a git to her, no doubt he would have been to me and I would not have been with him/ had a child with him knowing that.

My Dad did not pay my mum fairly. I would not be with someone who did the same to their children!

Is it any different from sleeping with someone else's OH? People come up with reasons that seem sufficient to them at the time

I think shit happens and we can justify poor behaviour in a Hollywood-style ‘true love’. Not supporting your children is a step very much further, surely?

I think there is a acceptance.I read a thread on another social media group tonight..

Dad had sent a token gift, pays no maintenance , and has no contact..The amount of people who defended this man was shocking..She should be greatful for the crumbs offered. while people think like this nothing will help.

Jeremy Kyle also doesn't help..She spends the money on ....WEll put it in an account for your child..Errr no legally you have to pay for your child.

"She didn't want my money"
"she earns plenty/gets a fortune in benefits and doesn't need my money for day to day things. I buy them extras when they need it."
"She'd just drink it."
"She was just swanning about in new clothes every week, I'll spend it on stuff for the kids directly, then I know they get the benefit, I don't mind spending on them, but I'm not funding her lifestyle anymore!"

many woman don't see just how low it is to not pay for child support until they've had DCs themselves. Our society does still see children as the responsibility of woman, and we don't see men who dno't pay child support the same as a resident parent who doesn't feed their DC.

The media spins a line about how generous benefits are, and as maintenance isn't taken into consideration for benefit levels, the view is it's 'extra' on top of what's already 'enough' to live on, so as it's only extra, that's optional and ok to not pay if you don't want to/don't think your ex will spend it on themselves.

One of my friends BF's has a child he doesn't see and pays nothing toward. I think it's absolutely disgusting and I can't bear to be around him, infact I actively avoid him.

Him and the child's mother were both young at the time, I think about 17, and his mum tried to pay the mum of the child off with a lump sum. Kind of a 'you take this money and go away forever' type deal. The mother and her family were disgusted, they refused the money.

He is one of the most selfish people I have ever met, I have no idea why my friend is with him he treats her terribly. His mum is no better.

Thankfully the child and mum were supported by her family, the mother got a new boyfriend during her pregnancy and 5 or so years later they are still together. The child calls him 'daddy' and they are a truly beautiful family.

I was with a man like this when I was 22. Fast forward a few years, and I realised I felt contemptuous towards him for making no effort with his teenage son.

From the age of 25 it was a deal breaker for me - if you have a child, and don't treat them well, then I am simply not interested. My own father never was interested in me, never wanted to see me or paid anything towards my upbringing.

It took a long while for me to be able to be even begin to confront the pain of my father's rejection of me. When I was working hard to numb myself to that pain, as a very young woman when I met my ex, I was able to accept his attitude toward his own kid. I accepted quite a few things I would not accept now.

It strikes me as likely that a lot of women who have had shit fathers probably don't see it as too awful when fathers don't provide support (financial or emotional) for their children, until they realise that their template for fatherhood is askew.

If they are anything like my ex's current GF, she thinks of me as a "hater" and claims she "work hard for my fam and dont want no haters bringin us down." (quoted directly from her fb page)

because she is a fucking twat who sees my kids as direct competition to hers.

So how does your friend justify being with this man, ^Missjay*?

Maybe he says she got overwhelming share of assets, ripped him off in divorce etc so justifies it that way

Alot of new partners on here seem to have partners in this situation (so they have been told)

My ex paid maintenance to me for 16 years from his self employed business account with his new wife never even knowing

I did very well out of my divorce. Better than my ex. But that reflects the difference in our incomes and potential incomes. It doesn’t cover child support.

I’m not justifying it - you posed the question I am suggesting one possibility

You sound like any answer won’t be justification for you

My dd dad doesn't pay maintenance and he has her 3 times a week but he does buy things for her when she needs it and is happy to buy something she needs if i ask him to get it for me or even pays half towards anything.

God knows, it baffles me but there are plenty of women who will go along with it. Maybe they want all the money spent on them and their children and think they are so different and special and not 'crazy' that they will never find themselves in the same situation one day.
DD's dad had a longish-term ex gf who knew full well he would not see, or pay towards DD. She knew because I made it clear, that I wasn't that woman, that I wanted desperately for DD's sake for him to be in her life. She said she believed me but she couldn't force him, nor could she force him to pay up. The gf wasn't unpleasant but I can't see how any woman would be with a man like him.

It's not just the men either, when my kids came to live with me full time their mum found every excuse under the sun not to pay maintenance, despite me handing it over every week when they lived with her. Eventually got tired of it and went to the CMS!

Nowadays we share the care so neither of us pays, which seems much more palatable.

Yes, I think you’re right. I am not sure there is any justification except where illness, disability or genuine hardship is concerned. But I am interested to see if there is stuff I have never thought of that may give other perspective. I am not closed to there being situations when it might be reasonable.

many woman don't see just how low it is to not pay for child support until they've had DCs themselves.

While I normally hate the 'childless women just don't get it' thing, I think there is some truth to this - or at least some 'well, I'd never end up in her situation, dependent on a man's money'. A few years ago when we were 30ish and none of us had children, one of my friends started seeing an older guy in the process of getting divorced, and I was shocked at how scathing both she and a lot of my other friends were about the fact that she (the soon-to-be ex wife) didn't work (they had three children under six) and therefore the fact that he 'had to pay for everything'. There was a very strong sense that their divorce settlement was 'unfair' in the burdens it put on him. My friend and him are still together, but I do wonder whether a few of my other friends, who have now become mothers, might see the situation in a different light. I don't think anyone would ever have suggested he shouldn't have been paying maintenance at all, but I think a lot of people didn't really understand that the money wasn't for her, but for the family that he had helped to create.

My ExH's track record is so fucked up no-one should want him.

But he's got a new girlfriend 20 years younger than him with a six year old son. She works in university admin. He's her colleague. His latest ExW doesn't know yet they were cheating on her.

He leaves a stream of children and step-children behind him. Always been a shit about basic child support.

The truth is, HE TELLS LIES.

Why do the women believe him? Because he finds women who want to.

Lots of people stay with arses. For example, it baffles me why people stay with a partner who has been sent to (or is even actually in) prison.

It's almost certainly a mix of being fed half-truths, being infatuated and happy to overlook your partners flaws, and being too afraid / lazy to end the relationship and have to find another one.

As a long time resident parent, I have learnt that the reason maintenance isn't paid (unemployment aside) is because they hate you more then they love their child (if they love them at all).

I don’t think I could ever be with someone that didn’t pay to support a child or see a child. I mean if they can treat a child that’s made from them that way imagine how they could treat you.

My nephews Mum left when he was 3 days old, she has not seen him since and she has never paid my brother a penny in maintence. Yet I know she is now married, so I guess someone people like her dh just don’t care how they treat the child

There are a ridiculously high amount of men around who don't pay a penny towards their children. Not just on Mumsnet but from what I see/hear in RL too.

Which is why I've always said it's very strange, that hardly any MNetters admit to living with these men.

But statistically, there has to be loads, surely?