To be fed up of DSS spoilt behaviour? Very long sorry!

[Chestnuts2017]

DP and his ex wife split up when his DS was 3, his mother left and moved away and since then DP has had full time custody of his DS.

I came along when DSS was 6 and we instantly hit it off, really lovely little boy and he thought the world of me too.

DP and I are self employed (different businesses) and DP often works long hours, as do I. DP works 7 days a week and I work 6. This initially wasn't a problem because DP is lucky that he has his own place of work (it’s not a shop where members of the public come into by the way),which was just around the corner from his DC's school. DSS couldn't wait to get back from school to go to his dad’s workplace and help out or just mooch around and do his own thing - he loved it which was perfect as DP could keep working, I’d often pop in on my way home to collect him but he was more than happy to stay with his dad helping him out, you couldn’t drag him away!

Here is where grandmother comes in (DP's ex MIL) - she also moved away not long after her daughter left but has recently moved back and wants more time with her grandson – fair enough.

She used to have him once a week after school and one stay overnight on the weekend which was great for DSS and great for us as it meant we could either keep working if we were nearing deadlines or we could just spend some time together in the evening.

Since this arrangement has taken place DSS has expressed his unhappiness of his dad working until gone 6 in the evening and said he should be at home when he gets home like his other friends parents (apparently none of his other friends parents work so that would explain that). He’s decided that he no longer wants to go to his dad’s place of work (the thing that he used to get really excited about!) and that if he does go, he wants paying for it…

DP has explained that he can’t just drop work at 3pm and sit at home in the evening as he wouldn’t have enough money to pay for bills etc, so in light of this DSS has decided that from now on he will go with his grandmother every single night so that DP can work until around 6pm – great arrangement for everyone, or so we thought…
So she will collect him after school, go shopping, buy him the latest gadget, games, or trainers etc and then she will drive him around to his friends’ houses and sit outside in the car and wait for him until he’s ready to leave (yes really!)

DP has asked her not to do this as not only is it not fair on the other kids parents to have someone turning up every night of the week unannounced, but he is now expecting this to happen on a regular basis and if his grandmother cannot have him after school one night he now expects DP to do the same.

She agreed initially but then gives in when she collects DSS – he basically rules the roost when it comes to her. We have also asked her to cut down on the spending as he’s starting to take it for granted, and again she agrees initially but then gives in.

DSS attitude has changed dramatically since this arrangement has taken place – he brags about how loaded his grandmother and her family are and how he can’t wait to inherit it all, he has been given the login details to her online shopping accounts where he can order himself anything he pleases up to a certain value and is just acting completely spoilt!

He is learning not to look after things because “grandma will buy me a new one”
He has a brand new iphone and his grandmother has taken a £40 a month contract out for him so that he has unlimited amounts of minutes, texts, data etc.

When DP and I come home at night we have to do boring adult stuff like cook tea and wash dishes and put clothes in the washing machine. After we have all sat down and had tea (half of which gets wasted because DSS has already eaten something with his grandmother but still wants to eat with us) then we then sit in the living room together and either help DSS with his homework or watch something on TV or play a board game.

(with regards to the meals – I have requested that DSS doesn’t have anything as he’s already eaten but then he gets upset and says he’s being excluded on purpose! So I give him a tiny amount of which still gets wasted…)

Last night DP collected DSS from his grandmothers as usual and when they got home DSS went into the living room and played on his computer game – I started tea and DP started doing the recycling to take out at which point we could hear DSS crying.
DP went in to see what was wrong to which DSS replied he’s fed up of us coming home and doing nothing in the evening

We asked what we “should” be doing in the evening to which he responded going out, going shopping or going for meals!
DP explained that we can’t afford to go out and go shopping all the time and we have to work to pay bills or we can’t have any nice things, to which DSS responded that we should have worked harder to get better jobs so we can have lots of money like his grandmother!

We have explained that we DO work hard but different people have different jobs, we can’t all do the same job and different jobs earn different amounts of money but he has never gone hungry, or gone without and he has always come first which he will accept at that time, but then at least once a week the story will raise its head again.
We have tried to include him in the evenings with things like cooking tea, or helping with doing washing etc so he feels involved but he refuses and said that he expects to be paid for doing things like that and that childhood is all about having fun and not having to do anything like that.

We do set aside time to go out, DP will move work commitments, as will I and we will say we are going out on X day of the month and we will stick to it, however, if DSS decides that he’s changed his mind and doesn’t want to go because his grandmother has offered him a better incentive, then we are expected to drop the plans and not go out – if we do go out then there’s holy hell to pay the next day when DSS finds out! We get accused of purposely excluding him – DP favouring time with me over time with DSS etc .

So I suggested that just the two of them spend time together, so again once a month DP will move his commitments and take DS out either to the cinema or for a meal, but again this doesn’t seem enough for DSS.

I'm getting really fed up of his behaviour of late, he's stressing the both of us out but I don't know what to do/say and neither does DP. Everytime DP has a word, his DS just gets really upset saying he wishes he had never been born and he's too much of an inconvenience to his dad etc which absolutely breaks DPs heart.

Christmas is coming and he's given us a list of REALLY expensive items he expects to have, we have explained that we can’t afford half of them on the list to which he responds “fine – ill get my grandma to buy them then because I know she will”
AIBU to think that if this doesn't get nipped in the bud its going to get worse and worse

What would YOU do if this was happening to you? We obviously can’t stop him spending time with his grandmother and we can’t stop her spending money on him but something needs to be said to DSS but I’m not sure what or even how to approach it!

Do you ever have DSS's friends over to play at yours? It might be a tiny move towards him wanting to spend time at home.

You have to feel for a kid that rarely sees their parents.

I know you schedule time for the kid, but that must feel a bit odd too.

What must that feel like, to be squeezed in for a 2:30 to 3:30 slot?

When you're unhappy, other people can easily manipulate you by exploiting your feelings, which I suspect the Grandma is doing.

Not sure I'm qualified to give advice, but I think professional bodies like RELATE would be able to help.

They have people who are trained in these situations and understand the emotional needs.

I do feel for that poor kid .
I can understand your situation needing to work, but that poor child must be so hurt.

Anyway, see a professional. Maybe your GP would know where to seek professional help. Or try RELATE. If they aren't right they could pass you on to the right people

I don't think it's fair to blame grandma for this - I don't know many 8yo's who would happily come in from school and sit at their dad's workplace for three hours every night. 6yo's are different - they're less independent and far more likely to be happy given random bits to play with while dad works. An 8yo? Not so much.

I understand you have debt to pay but is there no way of DP reducing his hours at all? You currently have zero childcare costs so you must be paying a fair whack towards the debt and saving for a house. If I were you, I would put savings on hold for a while and focus on an 8yo who is crying out for his father's time and attention.

If you don't tackle it now you're going to really struggle when he hits his teenage years and can go out and do whatever he wants after school as neither of you will be around to stop him or put boundaries in place.

Something has to change, obviously I know that hence why I've come on here for help (and to vent really!)

You and/or your DP need to have a word with.** GM. Tell her no more big gifts between birthdays and Christmas. Tell her your concerns. Then you gently need to communicate to DSS that he can't always get what he wants when he wants. Find some age appropriate ways of explaining the benefits of deferred gratification. Tell him that he's going to get a shock when he grows up and realised that if wants nice things then he'll have to work for them because they won't land in his lap. It's all very well complaining about his spoilt behaviour but as you rightly say he wasn't born spoilt. The adults in his life bear responsibility for this so they now need to parent him out of it.

Grandma is being used as a scapegoat. Sure she seems to be overcompensating and needs to cut back on the spending and spoiling but things would have gone this way no matter what.

Dad needs to step up as a parent.

He doesn’t need a bigger bedroom, OP. He needs his parents.

Hmm. Sounds like a combination of things - your 8 year old seems to have a lot of decision making power over what he does and where. I initially though we were talking about an 12 year old! You are the adults and decide on after school and childcare arrangements.

You also have a grandma problem. I would have another serious conversation with her, reduce contact and come up with a strategy on how to deal with all the gifts/money. Even if it continues it shouldn't stop you sticking to ground rules at home re chores and things. Just ignore the my grandma will do this nonsense.

No way would my 8 year old keep a smart phone 😒

Sound terrible though.

Take the phone off him. No 8 year old needs a phone.

Inform Grandma that any items bought for him without your approval will be returned immediately.
MAKE him go to a childminder/after school club. As others have said he has way too much of his own way for such a young child.
His father's work hours are what they are - you have to live. However your DH does need to find a way to take a regular weekend day off, or at least half a day to do something "family".
Cut down the amount of time he spends with Grandma immediately and spell out to her why you are doing it.
He's YOUR child, so you set the boundaries.

* DSS doesn't want to reduce his time with her*

Of course he doesn't if she buys him everything he asks for and does what he wants. But it isn't his decision. You need another sit down with her, but a very blunt and hard hitting conversation this time.

Not sure why the OP is still insisting it's all Grandma's fault rather than seeing the problems are due to a serious lack of parenting by her DH (and the OP). I guess it's easier to blame poor Grandma rather than look closer to home.

The child has been massively spoilt. Not just by Grandma but also by the OP and her DH. An 8 year old gets to dictate what they do every evening with all the attention focussed on him? No, that's how spoilt brats are created. I appreciate that this is due to guilt because the OP and her DH work so much but pandering to the kid's every whim just makes the problem worse.

I wouldn't cut Grandma out, I would try harder to get her on-side. Does this very wealthy lady know her DD left DH with her debts? Does she know that is having a knock on effect on DSS? I think she really cares about DSS and together would be a better approach than against each other. Can she watch him at your house, instead of ferrying him around until you get home?

I think your after school childcare attempts have been clumsily executed. He obviously doesn't want to be parked at the same thing every evening, but it isn't usually all or nothing. One night after school club, one day football, sometimes going to friends - that is a balance. Not many kids want to go to the same friends house, a friend who has already got his routine, every night for two weeks then never again.

DSS must surely have homework to do? You or your DH could spend time supervising this. Maybe listen to him read his school books, and also read him a story (Harry Potter is popular with 8 year olds).

Does he like music? Cubs? Sport, as has been suggested? There are so many constructive things children can do at 8 years old.

Cut contact with grandma unless she gets on board
Go back to child going to Dad's workshop after school, pay him pocket money.
Pocket money for chores around the house.
Arrange to do something nice once a week.
Eat dinner together, play one hour of board games together
It's your time he wants.

"Go back to child going to Dad's workshop after school, pay him pocket money."

I don't think that's the answer. As many others have said, having him at dad's workplace is unsustainable. It's why people who work from home can't also look after their kids. It's work. It's not for kids. They're lucky it was sweet while he was into it, but he's older now and it's quite normal for him not to want to be there. Paying him to be there will surely only exacerbate the fixation with everything having a price.

Agree with other points though. Reduce grandma time and get her onboard. Don't cut contact though, he's been through enough upheaval. Don't let him call the shots on after school clubs/childminders, but mix it up so it's not every night and each of you try to finish work early one night so he can go straight home. That's what 8yos really love and want. To hang at home with their parents' attention. I'm self-employed and work a LOT, but still think your hours sound crazy, esp when you're still having to tell him you can't afford things because you have bills to pay. It makes your lifestyle sound miserable so no wonder he prefers grandma's credit card. It's some very dangerous signals he's picking up and there needs to be a much healthier balance all round.

Oh the Irony..

Dad can't reduce hours because he wants to buy DS a bigger bedroom.
But Grandma is in the wrong for buying him what he wants.

GM takes him to mates houses and sits outside So does what he wants.
Prior to Grandma's return..Refused CM, refused after school club, refused after school club.

Both of you work 6 and 7 days a week to earn money and you wonder why he see's money as so important.

I grew up in a family where my dad worked very hard, mum worked from home. We had to go and work in his factory at weekends..I hated it. I grew up very resentful. The money meant nothing to me. As a parent now my priorities are not to have a big house or top of the range stuff as once you are grown you really don't remember most of it but it is about life experiences. My Son walked to school this morning chatting to his friend who said remember when you came to ours and we built a snowman. This is a far more animated conversation than about the stuff they have.

Your DSS has some very sad ideas about life and you have to all look at your responsibility and how to move forward and I expect it has to be a step back to move forward.

Don't think anyone has said this before but worth noting that it's a really common attention seeking technique for DC to say "I don't want to do ..." to something that they actually do want to do (it provokes a reaction). Similar to the way they always want mum if dad annoys them (or vice versa).

DS suggests going shopping because that's something he does with grandma that he actually enjoys. I think it's very sad that he cant' think of anything he'd like to do with you and his dad. Though I expect that just quality time doing something low key might be want he wants, he just can't express that.

It sounds like there are lots of things going on here, but the root of it does appear to be that your DH isn't spending enough time with his DS.

If he's working all the hours god sends and he's S/E, then surely he could finish one day a week at school pick up time for his DS. Does DSS have the opportunity to invite friends to his house - doesn't sound like it if no-ones around? He could do things with his pals that are free like going to a skate park or if there's snow going sledging. DS loves his electronics but also enjoys these things as well.

I'm sure it would be nice to have a bigger house, but at the minute it sounds like you're both working too much. Is S/E actually paying very much as I'd query why your DP needs to work so many hours? Would he be better transferring his skills to a paid job. Yes - he might not enjoy it so much, but many of us make compromises employment wise when DCs are young to try and reach that tightrope balance between parenting and making money.

I don't think DS sounds like a spoilt brat. I think he sounds very confused and lonely. How well do you get on with Grandma? Could you invite her round for dinner some time so you are all together, maybe then she'll get more of a sense of you as a family and would be more amenable to a chat about appropriate levels of gifts for DSS.

Why can't DH split his work up?

Pick up DS form school, sit with him to do homework, do tea, play, bath etc, send DS off to bed, and then go back to work?

Ask DGM to pay off some of the debt her daughter landed you with if she has so much money??

I think that you have made it pretty obvious on here that grandmother is the problem. (you think that and so do the posters). Therefore the easy thing for you to do is to limit visits to grandmother to, say, once a month, with you or your partner with him. Thats pretty normal in any event I would have thought for most kids.

I totally disagree with those saying 'poor child' etc. The OP and her DH are working their guts out. Maybe you think the OP should close down her business to look after her DSS? This could result in being unable to afford the rent and ending up in a hostel or B&B. Then the DSS would really have something to cry about.

When I was a child my DF had his own business and worked six days a week. My DSis and I absolutely loved going to his workplace some days after school and 'helping'. We never got bored, nor demanded being paid .

The GM is the one in the wrong - it's absurd to financially indulge an eight year old to the extent of a £40 a month mobile and lots more besides. She needs to be told to rein in on the spending and if she doesn't I would be telling her that time with her GS will be limited.

I 100% agree with zoenichole158 - he's a spoilt brat but it's not too late to change.

Has the OP said who looks after the child on the weekend when they are both working (Op works 6 days, her DH works 7)?

My own DS and many others I know have all got a little emotional at 8. Happy one minute, rolling round the floor crying the next at any tiny thing. I am not saying all kids/boys are like this but it is quite a common thing in my observations/discussions with other parents. His grandmother is not helping by indulging him.

I think he will pass this phase with consistency. Also how can an 8 year old 'leave' childcare after a week. Its more of a 'you must go and learn to enjoy'.

I would sub some of the evenings with his grandma for after school club whether he likes it or not and also for some kind of communication with grandma before any big purchases.

8??? Hes calling all the shots. Stop him!

^^This.

He has dictated his after school care all the way along.

And he's still doing it.

Well perhaps as work is the holy grail and pointing out that a DF who works long hours 7 days a week is not doing much parenting is wrong , then it would be better if the DS stayed with his DGran who at least seems to have some time to spend with him.

It would be interesting to know what these businesses are. Working hard is great, but as I said up-thread, for a couple working such long arduous hours they don't seem to be making much money.

With self employment - even if you're incredibly busy - it should be possible to carve out a few hours to spend with your own DC, more than once a month.