To be fed up of DSS spoilt behaviour? Very long sorry!

[Chestnuts2017]

DP and his ex wife split up when his DS was 3, his mother left and moved away and since then DP has had full time custody of his DS.

I came along when DSS was 6 and we instantly hit it off, really lovely little boy and he thought the world of me too.

DP and I are self employed (different businesses) and DP often works long hours, as do I. DP works 7 days a week and I work 6. This initially wasn't a problem because DP is lucky that he has his own place of work (it’s not a shop where members of the public come into by the way),which was just around the corner from his DC's school. DSS couldn't wait to get back from school to go to his dad’s workplace and help out or just mooch around and do his own thing - he loved it which was perfect as DP could keep working, I’d often pop in on my way home to collect him but he was more than happy to stay with his dad helping him out, you couldn’t drag him away!

Here is where grandmother comes in (DP's ex MIL) - she also moved away not long after her daughter left but has recently moved back and wants more time with her grandson – fair enough.

She used to have him once a week after school and one stay overnight on the weekend which was great for DSS and great for us as it meant we could either keep working if we were nearing deadlines or we could just spend some time together in the evening.

Since this arrangement has taken place DSS has expressed his unhappiness of his dad working until gone 6 in the evening and said he should be at home when he gets home like his other friends parents (apparently none of his other friends parents work so that would explain that). He’s decided that he no longer wants to go to his dad’s place of work (the thing that he used to get really excited about!) and that if he does go, he wants paying for it…

DP has explained that he can’t just drop work at 3pm and sit at home in the evening as he wouldn’t have enough money to pay for bills etc, so in light of this DSS has decided that from now on he will go with his grandmother every single night so that DP can work until around 6pm – great arrangement for everyone, or so we thought…
So she will collect him after school, go shopping, buy him the latest gadget, games, or trainers etc and then she will drive him around to his friends’ houses and sit outside in the car and wait for him until he’s ready to leave (yes really!)

DP has asked her not to do this as not only is it not fair on the other kids parents to have someone turning up every night of the week unannounced, but he is now expecting this to happen on a regular basis and if his grandmother cannot have him after school one night he now expects DP to do the same.

She agreed initially but then gives in when she collects DSS – he basically rules the roost when it comes to her. We have also asked her to cut down on the spending as he’s starting to take it for granted, and again she agrees initially but then gives in.

DSS attitude has changed dramatically since this arrangement has taken place – he brags about how loaded his grandmother and her family are and how he can’t wait to inherit it all, he has been given the login details to her online shopping accounts where he can order himself anything he pleases up to a certain value and is just acting completely spoilt!

He is learning not to look after things because “grandma will buy me a new one”
He has a brand new iphone and his grandmother has taken a £40 a month contract out for him so that he has unlimited amounts of minutes, texts, data etc.

When DP and I come home at night we have to do boring adult stuff like cook tea and wash dishes and put clothes in the washing machine. After we have all sat down and had tea (half of which gets wasted because DSS has already eaten something with his grandmother but still wants to eat with us) then we then sit in the living room together and either help DSS with his homework or watch something on TV or play a board game.

(with regards to the meals – I have requested that DSS doesn’t have anything as he’s already eaten but then he gets upset and says he’s being excluded on purpose! So I give him a tiny amount of which still gets wasted…)

Last night DP collected DSS from his grandmothers as usual and when they got home DSS went into the living room and played on his computer game – I started tea and DP started doing the recycling to take out at which point we could hear DSS crying.
DP went in to see what was wrong to which DSS replied he’s fed up of us coming home and doing nothing in the evening

We asked what we “should” be doing in the evening to which he responded going out, going shopping or going for meals!
DP explained that we can’t afford to go out and go shopping all the time and we have to work to pay bills or we can’t have any nice things, to which DSS responded that we should have worked harder to get better jobs so we can have lots of money like his grandmother!

We have explained that we DO work hard but different people have different jobs, we can’t all do the same job and different jobs earn different amounts of money but he has never gone hungry, or gone without and he has always come first which he will accept at that time, but then at least once a week the story will raise its head again.
We have tried to include him in the evenings with things like cooking tea, or helping with doing washing etc so he feels involved but he refuses and said that he expects to be paid for doing things like that and that childhood is all about having fun and not having to do anything like that.

We do set aside time to go out, DP will move work commitments, as will I and we will say we are going out on X day of the month and we will stick to it, however, if DSS decides that he’s changed his mind and doesn’t want to go because his grandmother has offered him a better incentive, then we are expected to drop the plans and not go out – if we do go out then there’s holy hell to pay the next day when DSS finds out! We get accused of purposely excluding him – DP favouring time with me over time with DSS etc .

So I suggested that just the two of them spend time together, so again once a month DP will move his commitments and take DS out either to the cinema or for a meal, but again this doesn’t seem enough for DSS.

I'm getting really fed up of his behaviour of late, he's stressing the both of us out but I don't know what to do/say and neither does DP. Everytime DP has a word, his DS just gets really upset saying he wishes he had never been born and he's too much of an inconvenience to his dad etc which absolutely breaks DPs heart.

Christmas is coming and he's given us a list of REALLY expensive items he expects to have, we have explained that we can’t afford half of them on the list to which he responds “fine – ill get my grandma to buy them then because I know she will”
AIBU to think that if this doesn't get nipped in the bud its going to get worse and worse

What would YOU do if this was happening to you? We obviously can’t stop him spending time with his grandmother and we can’t stop her spending money on him but something needs to be said to DSS but I’m not sure what or even how to approach it!

Sounds like this 8 year old gets far too many choices. Re. After school club or childminder surely that wasnt solely his decsion? What did you think was best for him?

Ive never heard of an 8 year old who wants to go shopping everh evening ..it sounds like he really needs some help and support in life. Let him keep his relationship witj grandma as he has already lost his mum - a huge thing- but his dad reallt2 needs to step out of the workshop for a bit to get to know what is going on in his sons head.

Sounds to me like he has had a taste of a new Life and he likes it

Why BT have a family meeting

Yes to more family time and agree a fortnightly activity you all do
NO to consumer goods

I would also have a family chat with the grandma

It’s nit super easy to be motherless but he is confusing money with love

He's 8 and his main carer works 7 days a week? That's sad. I think he's crying out for some time with his Dad that doesn't revolve around Dad's work.

Do people seriously not understand that sometimes people work 7 days a week because they HAVE TO?

Surely going to his dad's workshop after school til 6 isn't much different than him going to an after school club til 6 like thousands of children seem to do? The OP has already said he liked it. A friend of mine's son used to come to work and wait for her for a few hours after school and enjoyed it. It is possible, but it is also possible that he's now outgrown this arrangement which is fair enough. But he absolutely shouldn't be acting the way he is.

Two adults, working seven and six days a week, with zero childcare costs and one dependent, in the UK? No, I don't think they have to work like this. Running their own businesses is a choice.

If the two businesses only generate sufficient income with a working pattern that's causing obvious distress to their son, then there has to be some adjustment. Otherwise, as several other posters have said, this is only going to get worse. Spending one day per month with your father isn't enough, especially in this kid's circumstances. He's being pretty clear about his feelings and it's sad that nobody wants to listen.

Yes even on minimum wage no one needs to work 7 days a week and the second adult working 6 days.

Unless you are trying to keep up with the Hamilton's working so much when do you guys have an actually life?

are material processions worth living to work not working to live....

Do people seriously not understand that sometimes people work 7 days a week because they HAVE TO?

I don't believe that two adults HAVE to work 6/7 days week when they have no childcare costs. They're both choosing to be self-employed - which is often unreliable in terms of income, and often doesn't create as much income as a full-time, employed job.

If my relationship with my child was suffering, I would get a regular job with two days off a week if at all possible. I don't think it's fair on an 8yo to be farmed out to grandmas/friends houses because his dad would rather work 7 days a week in his own business than work for someone else and spend time with his child.

If he’s finishing at 6 surely it would be better for him to do longer days but less of them? Even if he had to do 5 x 12/13 hour days that’s surely preferable to having no chunk of tie to dedicate just to ds?

Some of y'all saying that nobody has to work 7 days a week sound nuts. We have no idea how big the debt is that his ex-wife left. And, it's only been 5 years since the split. Depending on the size of the debt, there is no way he could pay it back in that time.

Tell him what he is doing and where he is going and give him less choice and cut his contact with his grandma, she is trying to buy him

They say they have debt, it might be massive, they might be working their arsed off to get it paid off quicker and reduce interest etc.

They not working 7 days a week because they cba being parents ffs.

I think No one has bad intentions here
I agree that grannny feel guilty and is over compensating
Parents have got into habits that might need a shake up

Op if you can read Danny Champion of the world , get his dad to read it actually it’s a lovely story of a boy that hangs out in his dads workshop .

And in that note I am turning my phone 📱 ff and focusing on my kids

Loveactually
Your dss is in crisis. This class for crisis management. Something has to give. And it is gong to have to be the money you or more importantly his dad earns if you want to save him.

The lifestyle you are able to maintain is rather different from people, who are struggling to afford to eat and cannot afford sanitary or hygiene products let alone a computer, tablet or smart phone. Nowhere does it say the op is on or below the breadline. I have made a fair assumption.

mummy that's not the bit I quoted. See screenshot.

So you're suggesting that because op is not in poverty that they should reduce their hours in order to see their child more but (probably) have a lower standard of living?

Working a seven day week with children is excessive.

The child has too much choice.

He is being spoiled.

You’s need not pander to his every whim.

He’s pushing boundaries. You both need to draw the line and quickly

If you have to work- you have to work, so I won't comment other than to say there really should be some time made by your DH - for at least a half day to do something DSS related outside of his shop.

Grandma needs to be reined in, and if she can't hold the line re parenting contact needs to be significantly reduced. You can't stop him seeing her but you can reduce the time.One night/one day a week - and if she still persists in spoiling him, drop it to once a fortnight. You are going to have to drop the amount of time he spends with her, and return to her expensive gifts etc otherwise this behaviour will get worse.

And no 8 year old should have a phone. I'm even more adamant about this if it is a smart phone, he's not going anywhere alone or to any places where he needs to call anyone. Return it to her.

DSS needs to go back to after school care like very other child whose parents have to work does. He should also be involved in some kind of club or hobby or sport after school - he may well be bored.

I'm of the stricter school of parenting, and no 8 year old in my house would be dictating what he is doing re after school care etc. No way. I would listen to the comments, but explain the necessity. And not deviate.

Re DSS laying on the guilt. Get your DH to repeatedly tell him that it is not true, and that he is loved. Tell him material stuff doesn't equal love. But don't cave to it. He's learning that emotional blackmail is a successful tactic.

I think if it were me, I'd look at the effect gran is having on him, and be imagining what DSS will be like in a few years if you let this continue. He didn't have these opinions till she arrived on the scene and obviously she's not having a positive effect.

Reduce the contact, and stop letting an 8 year old decide what he will or won't be doing, and effectively what you and your DP will or won't be doing. Be firm. Child hood is about fun , yes, but it's also about learning to be a functional human being in the future. Point that out to him.

Loveactually
I appreciate that’s not the bit you quoted. However, you misrepresented what I said in my entire post by extracting one part and claimed I didn’t say something when I did.

I am absolutely suggesting they should work less hours even if it means reducing their standard of living. Being the daughter of man, who worked ridiculously long hours and weekends, I know what it feels like to hardly ever see my father and to feel totally abandoned by him when I needed him to protect me from my bullies - my mother and brother. The boy has been abandoned by his mother and is being abandoned by his father, who needs to make a choice to see his child on his child’s terms and restore work/life balance. It’s not a choice really, it’s a parental obligation.

Not knowing what your occupations are, I don't know how realist this is, but as you are self-employed is there anyway that one of you could work in the evenings and take time off during the day to be with dss?

Again not knowing either the size or the nature of the debt, but could it not be renogiated so that you don't have to work all out during dss's formative years?

I never said you didn't say it - I just pointed out the part I quoted. Regardless of how much of the post I quoted, i still think youre being ridiculous.

Im sorry that you were in that situation but its completely different to this one. He is not being abandoned, he's being provided for.

I agree there are steps that can be taken for more quality time but it could just be a film and some treats on the sofa one night after tea, they dont need to sacrifice their standard of living (which we know nothing about!)

^ What CommanderDaisy said.

You have got to take control back from this child AND from the grandmother. Set reasonable boundaries for both of them and stick to them.

I think posters are just suggesting maybe a little more time spent with your DSS would be very beneficial to him right now. As I said before, maybe just one activity a week that your DH could do with him. And occasionally a DVD night/board game that the two of you could enjoy with him? It wouldn't interfere too much with your working hours. He is clearly craving time with you, it could make a lot of difference.

Absolutely yes, hours should be dropped even if it reduces income.

otherwise, where else has he got the impression that money equals love than from his parents? And yet you don't give him any money, and his grandma does ... what conclusion is an 8 year old child supposed to form from that?

Lotsof people have debt. Not everyone emotionally neglects their child in favour of their credit report.

It's not just the working till 6ish - as others have pointed out that's pretty normal. It's the fact that when they get home, OP and her DH busy themselves with household jobs. According to OP's description "last night" they got home and OP started tea and DH dealt with the recycling. On the basis that DSS has already eaten, neither of these tasks have to be done as soon as they get home. It's telling that OP's idea of including him involves him helping out with jobs. It would require pretty minimum effort for (say) DH to spend some time actually with DSS doing something that an 8 year old might consider fun (and that could be as simple as listening to what he did at school, or playing his computer game with him) and leave the household jobs for when he is in bed.

WUB