To be fed up of DSS spoilt behaviour? Very long sorry!

[Chestnuts2017]

DP and his ex wife split up when his DS was 3, his mother left and moved away and since then DP has had full time custody of his DS.

I came along when DSS was 6 and we instantly hit it off, really lovely little boy and he thought the world of me too.

DP and I are self employed (different businesses) and DP often works long hours, as do I. DP works 7 days a week and I work 6. This initially wasn't a problem because DP is lucky that he has his own place of work (it’s not a shop where members of the public come into by the way),which was just around the corner from his DC's school. DSS couldn't wait to get back from school to go to his dad’s workplace and help out or just mooch around and do his own thing - he loved it which was perfect as DP could keep working, I’d often pop in on my way home to collect him but he was more than happy to stay with his dad helping him out, you couldn’t drag him away!

Here is where grandmother comes in (DP's ex MIL) - she also moved away not long after her daughter left but has recently moved back and wants more time with her grandson – fair enough.

She used to have him once a week after school and one stay overnight on the weekend which was great for DSS and great for us as it meant we could either keep working if we were nearing deadlines or we could just spend some time together in the evening.

Since this arrangement has taken place DSS has expressed his unhappiness of his dad working until gone 6 in the evening and said he should be at home when he gets home like his other friends parents (apparently none of his other friends parents work so that would explain that). He’s decided that he no longer wants to go to his dad’s place of work (the thing that he used to get really excited about!) and that if he does go, he wants paying for it…

DP has explained that he can’t just drop work at 3pm and sit at home in the evening as he wouldn’t have enough money to pay for bills etc, so in light of this DSS has decided that from now on he will go with his grandmother every single night so that DP can work until around 6pm – great arrangement for everyone, or so we thought…
So she will collect him after school, go shopping, buy him the latest gadget, games, or trainers etc and then she will drive him around to his friends’ houses and sit outside in the car and wait for him until he’s ready to leave (yes really!)

DP has asked her not to do this as not only is it not fair on the other kids parents to have someone turning up every night of the week unannounced, but he is now expecting this to happen on a regular basis and if his grandmother cannot have him after school one night he now expects DP to do the same.

She agreed initially but then gives in when she collects DSS – he basically rules the roost when it comes to her. We have also asked her to cut down on the spending as he’s starting to take it for granted, and again she agrees initially but then gives in.

DSS attitude has changed dramatically since this arrangement has taken place – he brags about how loaded his grandmother and her family are and how he can’t wait to inherit it all, he has been given the login details to her online shopping accounts where he can order himself anything he pleases up to a certain value and is just acting completely spoilt!

He is learning not to look after things because “grandma will buy me a new one”
He has a brand new iphone and his grandmother has taken a £40 a month contract out for him so that he has unlimited amounts of minutes, texts, data etc.

When DP and I come home at night we have to do boring adult stuff like cook tea and wash dishes and put clothes in the washing machine. After we have all sat down and had tea (half of which gets wasted because DSS has already eaten something with his grandmother but still wants to eat with us) then we then sit in the living room together and either help DSS with his homework or watch something on TV or play a board game.

(with regards to the meals – I have requested that DSS doesn’t have anything as he’s already eaten but then he gets upset and says he’s being excluded on purpose! So I give him a tiny amount of which still gets wasted…)

Last night DP collected DSS from his grandmothers as usual and when they got home DSS went into the living room and played on his computer game – I started tea and DP started doing the recycling to take out at which point we could hear DSS crying.
DP went in to see what was wrong to which DSS replied he’s fed up of us coming home and doing nothing in the evening

We asked what we “should” be doing in the evening to which he responded going out, going shopping or going for meals!
DP explained that we can’t afford to go out and go shopping all the time and we have to work to pay bills or we can’t have any nice things, to which DSS responded that we should have worked harder to get better jobs so we can have lots of money like his grandmother!

We have explained that we DO work hard but different people have different jobs, we can’t all do the same job and different jobs earn different amounts of money but he has never gone hungry, or gone without and he has always come first which he will accept at that time, but then at least once a week the story will raise its head again.
We have tried to include him in the evenings with things like cooking tea, or helping with doing washing etc so he feels involved but he refuses and said that he expects to be paid for doing things like that and that childhood is all about having fun and not having to do anything like that.

We do set aside time to go out, DP will move work commitments, as will I and we will say we are going out on X day of the month and we will stick to it, however, if DSS decides that he’s changed his mind and doesn’t want to go because his grandmother has offered him a better incentive, then we are expected to drop the plans and not go out – if we do go out then there’s holy hell to pay the next day when DSS finds out! We get accused of purposely excluding him – DP favouring time with me over time with DSS etc .

So I suggested that just the two of them spend time together, so again once a month DP will move his commitments and take DS out either to the cinema or for a meal, but again this doesn’t seem enough for DSS.

I'm getting really fed up of his behaviour of late, he's stressing the both of us out but I don't know what to do/say and neither does DP. Everytime DP has a word, his DS just gets really upset saying he wishes he had never been born and he's too much of an inconvenience to his dad etc which absolutely breaks DPs heart.

Christmas is coming and he's given us a list of REALLY expensive items he expects to have, we have explained that we can’t afford half of them on the list to which he responds “fine – ill get my grandma to buy them then because I know she will”
AIBU to think that if this doesn't get nipped in the bud its going to get worse and worse

What would YOU do if this was happening to you? We obviously can’t stop him spending time with his grandmother and we can’t stop her spending money on him but something needs to be said to DSS but I’m not sure what or even how to approach it!

According to OP's description "last night" they got home and OP started tea and DH dealt with the recycling. On the basis that DSS has already eaten, neither of these tasks have to be done as soon as they get home.

What? The OH and her DP need to eat. Just because the son has eaten, everything else and everyone else must stop for him? No. That's spoiling him even more. They were doing family household work that keeps the ship running.

Besides, that was just last night. Other times the DP also helps DSS with his homework and whatnot.

+1 to what CommanderDaisy said.

Also, @Chesnuts2017, is it possible your DSS' grandmother could be connecting him with his mother? Just a thought regarding poisoning the well. If not, please genuinely disregard it.

The Op has stated that every night she and her husband do something with the child - playing games or watching his favourite films, but he s not satisfied with this, he wants to be going out and spending money.
I would say that playing games every night is more than many parents who don't work long hours do with their kids.

I think OP is getting a ridiculously hard time from some people - it seems that some posters on here have absolutely no concept of what it is like to have to work long hours in order to pay bills, mortgage and in this case debt. The advice of 'work less hours' is simply not possible for some people. Some people are very lucky and work is an optional activity, they do it because they enjoy it, not because they have to. For others it is absolutley necessary for both parents to work and when you are self employed you often have to work much longer hours than other people.

I don't see the problem as this child not getting enough attention, he gets nightly quality time iwht both parents, and until granny came on the scene he enjoyed spending time with his dad in his workshop (As a child I lived with my Uncle and aunt for some time and my Uncle took me to work with him in his petrol station - I loved it - didn;t feel in anay way neglected or hard done by.)
The problem is that since granny appeared the boy is not satisfied with time sent on him, he wants money spent on him and he has learned this attitude from Granny who for whatever reason (maybe guilt) is showering him with cash and expensive gifts, This would turn any child's head it is confusing for him. I think his background is not actually relevant here, this was happy little boy, his behaviour has changed because someone has appeared in his life who is teaching him that money is everything and money equals love.

Granny needs to back right off and let this child get back to reality and a life with boundaries and pleasures that aren't cash based

KurriKurri, we're all just thinking of changes that could be made, obviously something different needs to be tried to counteract the toxic influence of the grandma. I was thinking father and son activities weekly rather than just monthly.

It may be that they have to cut our the grandma altogether ultimately.

lots of comments to be taken on board here

Some points to clarify - no we can't do household things after he's gone to bed, the washing wouldn't get dried in time for starters as it goes into the tumble drier as soon as it's finished. DP's work clothes are usually covered in glue, grease and god knows what so they have to be washed straight away.

The recycling can't be done after he's gone to bed for 2 reasons 1) it wakes up the next door neighbours baby trundling the wheelie bin down the drive and 2) it would also wake up DSS so they have to be done when we come in.

And anyway, its not as if we spend all evening doing these chores, they are essential things that have to be done and they don't take all evening - the rest of the evening after tea has been eaten is devoted to DSS.

Again - I don't work as late as DP does most nights, as I've said previously I would usually go to DP's work to collect DSS to take him home but he rejected this as he wanted to stay with his dad and have fun there making things - again what's the harm if he wants to stay there?

The whole issue was that before GM came back on the scene he was happy - he never once moaned that he wasn't loved, didn't spend enough time with us he was just a lovely happy child who didn't need a games console, didn't need a phone,and now since he's been introduced to GM's credit card his whole attitude and outlook has changed dramatically.

At the moment no neither of us can reduce our hours - its a very big debt, we are also trying to save up aswell to move as our house is only 2 bed and DSS has a very small box room so we are trying to get a bigger house for him to be able to have a better room - not an extravagant lavish huge house - just a bigger one for his sake more than anything really! But this was the only house DP could afford at the time (DP and ex were renting together previously)

We've already suggested the after school activities and he doesn't want to do anything, he isn't interested in sports, hobbies etc he just wants to either hang outside and play with his mates or if they aren't available he just wants to play on his video games or go shopping.
His games console was also bought by his GM as there was no way we could afford the £300 to buy it at the time and it wasn't close to his birthday or Christmas to be able to justify buying it but his GM wanted to buy it for him, therefore he had it.

It's not about the time we spend together, we have made considerable efforts in the summer to take him to the beach, take him on picnics etc but he gets bored and moans that we aren't spending money and buying things - THIS is what the major issue is about, not the spending time part.

I collected him tonight and he said he'd been shopping with his GM(obviously!) and has seen a £300 item that he wants- so I said ok, well now you have something you want to save up for so perhaps you could do some chores or help out to save up for it?
His response? "no need GM said she will give me the money"
its THIS that drives me crazy - no sense of value and no interest in earning the money to save for it, just a "if I want it ill have it" attitude, but at the same time if he's asked to do something around the house, he's expected to be paid for it which obviously we refuse. - but its the attitude.

This time last year he'd grab the hoover (it's only a lightweight one by the way!) and happily go hoover the living room without even being asked, he'd get up after dinner and take his plates to the sink, tidy his bedroom all without being asked.

I'm not saying for one minute this is all his fault - he didn't get born wanting to go shopping and buy everything but GM obviously isn't going to co-operate, DSS doesn't want to reduce his time with her and I'm worried this is going to create a situation whereby he won't want to work in the future he will just assume GM will give him hand outs for the rest of his life which obviously isn't going to be the case.

Something has to change, obviously I know that hence why I've come on here for help (and to vent really!)

If GM is refusing to cooperate, cut off contact. If she keeps sending him expensive things, start returning them and putting the money into savings for him. I think you’re doing a good job under hard circumstances, OP!

Also, he’s 8! He doesn’t need to go out every night! At his age, I would happily watch tv, read a book or play a board game with my family. PPs saying he’s bored and neglected are talking utter nonsense.

Unsupervised time with grandmother is obviously not in his best interest right now.

I agree with Dinosaurs that one thing is to return everything expensive to where it was bought or donate it if you can't. Don't give it to Grandma or he'll just keep it at her house.

I've run out of ideas, but you have all my sympathy.

Originally before grandma came back on the scene he went to after school club after a week decided he hated it and refused to go back.

Then he started going to a friends house whose mother was also a child minder but after 2 weeks said she was being nasty to him and never went back

Then he started going to another friends house but after a week decided he would rather go to his dad's workshop and make things.

From this post OP it sounds like he’s gotten used to getting his own way well before gran came back on the scene, his parents are letting him get his own way, are giving in to his demands, is it really surprising that Gran is also finding it hard to say no too?

I do agree with pps that she needs to tell him no and mean it, but the same applies to you and his Dad, even your most recent list says dds doesn’t want to reduce contact with gran, it’s not his choice to make.

Also, is there a chance your diss has worded his time at Dads work in a way that sounds like he is working with his Dad, you mentioned they work on projects together, if these are projects he profits him and a young child is spending several hours after school everyday doing work, even fun work, why to someone who doesn’t know the dynamics may question it, and ask if he’s being paid. It could look like he’s working three hours a day after school, I know that’s not how it is but if dss is used to getting his own way he could have worded it to look like that?

Also to a child, a month is a long time, so once a month with his Dad may feel like hardly ever.

I do think changes need to be made but not just RE time and boundaries with his gran.

Good Luck

I agree with getme, when my kids were 8, I absolutely took their feelings into consideration but they did NOT decide who looked after them when we couldn't. Sometimes they went places that weren't their first choice because that is what worked, e.g. they'd stay in afterschool care sometimes when they'd rather be home playing lego because no one was available that day. It does sound like he is used to getting his own way which is scary for kids. Being able to emotionally manipulate his father at 8 does not bode well for the rocky teen years ahead.

Also afterschool activities weren't a choice either, well in that they were expected to do something. My kids could (can) chose what they wanted and I'd do my best to make it happen if I could, but doing nothing wasn't an option unless there was a very good reason (e.g. sick). If they didn't choose then I chose for them. The expectation was that they would chose a sport or physical activity (e.g. dance, walking the dog etc if they aren't sporty) and something else... chess, gardening, art, something. One son would have chosen to do nothing every last time, but once involved in an activity really enjoyed it and for a number of years made sports his life.

I'm not sure many kids would rather have a bigger house and less time with their parents. I do understand needing to pay a debt though, that is important. If you aren't saving for a bigger house though could it be paid slightly slower which would allow for slightly more time at home??

Chores in our house are non-negotiable. Especially for eight-year-olds. If someone isn't pulling their weight (e.g. taking the rubbish out and making their bed and putting away their clean clothes might be a daily chore in our house when kids were that age) then things like screen time (TV, computer etc) would have been gone. I feel that it is really important for kids to have responsibilities and learn how to look after themselves bit by bit.

It's nor the grandma's fault. She has picked up the slack for the parents. Surely you can see that forcing the kid to hang round his dads work for 3 hours every day is unacceptable. Your dh needs to cut down on his work and start parenting this child

I think he had a lovely life pre grandma. All that time after school with his dad was great and unusual most DFs are away at work. Despite it not being constant attention.

Is he accessing stuff on his phone which is causing him upset.
Absolutely should notbe going to the friends house more than once a week.

Sorry OP but short of you banning his GM from having contact with him, l’m not sure there’s much you can do to stop her influencing him

DSS doesn’t want to reduce his time with her

You and your dp get to make the choice of who is and is not an appropriate influence on his life. If grandma isn’t appropriate, you reduce contact or cut her off.

The last summer holidays, I didn’t see my mother at all. My brother was violent to me and she “picked” him - not that I was asking her to pick sides. They talked about me behind my back after the event and both blamed me, apparently did nothing wrong. She’s often horrible to me being the scapegoat and him the golden child. Dd (9) was pretty upset that she wouldn’t be seeing grandma over the summer holidays. But tough. I was too upset and frightened to be my mother’s presence for several months.

My dd also no longer gets to be with her grandmother alone as I don’t trust her to keep my dd safe and away from him as dd is petrified of him. As am I. Apparently my brother just wants to be friendly. He cannot control his temper and he threatens to deck me or punch me and has hurt me when I collapse because he denies my illness and disability.

Dh and I make choices to keep my dd and me safe. You and your dp need to make tough choices to keep your dss safe as well. Being around a woman, who is teaching him that he doesn’t have to work for anything is destroying his life. It’s equally as damaging as what my mother is prepared to do to my dd. That woman is prepared to sacrifice his emotional well-being to satisfy her need to control him. She is really really dangerous. He may never recover from this if you don’t act now

Until you and your dp change your attitude and outlook, nothing is going to change. She is free childcare. And this free childcare is at the expense this child’s future. I understand you have debts. And paying more interest on debts, which don’t even belong to your dp is really shit.

Has your dp spoken to the creditors about freezing the interest so that you can take more time? Even if not, I’d bite the bullet to save my child. Because make no mistake, this is what you’re talking about here. A larger house is a nice to have and at 8 it isn’t actually that important. I could more understand you wanting this for a child in their teens. Yet still, a well balanced child is far more important. Every time.

Clearly you aren’t ready yet to hear all of this and that’s fine. I hope for your dss’s sake you will be one day.

I think you're partly blaming the grandmother for issues that would have arisen anyway. An 8-yr-old isn't the same as a 6-yr-old. He would have started to get bored with sitting in your DH's work anyway. You and his DF have taught him that money is the most important motivator in life. That's not a lesson from grandmother. It's a lesson from you making him sit in his DF's work for hours. Telling him that earning money and paying for a bigger house is more of a priority than him.
His grandmother is taking him to play with friends.
The life you had based round a compliant child sitting in his DF's work wasn't ever sustainable.
You both need to take responsibility and stop looking for someone else to blame.

You both need to step in here op. This is not normal behaviour from a grandparent. It sounds to me that she is trying to alienate him from you,
Parental alienation is very serious indeed, you need to Google it. It's not normal or ok to over ride your wishes about gifts or money. It's not normal to take him to his friends and wait like a chauffeur or tell him he's going to inherit a fortune.

I'd stop contact immediately. And I'd stop letting him dictate, it's not kind to listen to his every whim. We all have to work and eat, do household tasks.

Out of interest did grandma ask that parent before she took him round there every day?

Your work situation can't change overly .
Your Grandma situation can.
Whether DSS "wants" to reduce his contact or not, this is the source of the focus on money- Disney Grandma.

Reduce contact. End of. Don't let DSS accept the expensive items. Tell her you are reducing the time spent with her as you feel she is teaching him values you are not comfortable with and that it is affecting his behaviour, and until she stops buying everything he looks at - contact will be reduced. It does NOT matter if DSS wants to continue the amount of time he spends with her - it is not his decsion - he's 8 - tough. Put him in after school care if you need to - he won't die. Leave it as is, and what you are posting about will continue.

You and you DH are the adults. You are raising this child, yet currently this child is telling you how it will be and you are letting him. You know Grandma is the source of the problem , so do something about it. Otherwise any of the lessons about work and money and responsibility you are trying to teach him will be completely wasted.

As an aside , do you control and supervise his gaming hours? My son turned into a complete turd when we initially didn't regulate his gaming time.

Commander
Very good point about the gaming. I know someone, whose ds was the same. He was given a standard 15 mins and he had to earn the rest for good behaviour.

Why are you not listening to anyone OP?

Why is the grandma and 8 year old being blamed for everything???

DH should take the phone off his son for starters. No 8 year old needs a phone, let alone an iPhone.

He needs to stop working so much, if possible. So he can spend more time with his son.

Stop him sending him to grandma's for free child care. He's obviously being fed lines there, so remove him from the situation.

Make him go to after school clubs.

Stop letting an 8 year old dictate everyone. He isn't old enough or mature enough to be making these decisions for everyone.

Get your Husband to be a fucking parent.

gwen is spot on.Grandma has stepped in because you and dh had no proper childcare in place.Helping his dad was a novelty for a 6 yo for a bit.It was not sustainable.This child is using money to fill the void left by you and his dh having no time for him and by modelling worship of the mighty dollar.stop trying to blame grandma who is only taking up the slack for your (plural) poor parenting.

JingsMahBucket

I didn't say that OP and DH didn't need to eat, just that they didn't need to start cooking tea the instant they walked in the door - many working parents don't eat until their DC are in bed. Even if they do want to cook the instant they get in, this still leaves one parent to spend time with DSS.
If you have only a limited time with your DC due to work commitments, then you prioritise spending that time with them, not on household jobs!

You've been repeatedly told that your stepson needs more time with his dad and lest time with mafia granny. Implement this for 3 months and then rethink the situation

Bitching and complaining about grandma doesn’t change things, YOU ARE THE PARENTS!

Since your DH seems absolutely not prepared to reduce his hours from 7 days/ week I hope for the boys sake you will allow grandma to continue. Better spoiled than neglected. It's not on to have an 8 year old sit at a workplace all week like the children of the poor did in 1870.