To be fed up of DSS spoilt behaviour? Very long sorry!

[Chestnuts2017]

DP and his ex wife split up when his DS was 3, his mother left and moved away and since then DP has had full time custody of his DS.

I came along when DSS was 6 and we instantly hit it off, really lovely little boy and he thought the world of me too.

DP and I are self employed (different businesses) and DP often works long hours, as do I. DP works 7 days a week and I work 6. This initially wasn't a problem because DP is lucky that he has his own place of work (it’s not a shop where members of the public come into by the way),which was just around the corner from his DC's school. DSS couldn't wait to get back from school to go to his dad’s workplace and help out or just mooch around and do his own thing - he loved it which was perfect as DP could keep working, I’d often pop in on my way home to collect him but he was more than happy to stay with his dad helping him out, you couldn’t drag him away!

Here is where grandmother comes in (DP's ex MIL) - she also moved away not long after her daughter left but has recently moved back and wants more time with her grandson – fair enough.

She used to have him once a week after school and one stay overnight on the weekend which was great for DSS and great for us as it meant we could either keep working if we were nearing deadlines or we could just spend some time together in the evening.

Since this arrangement has taken place DSS has expressed his unhappiness of his dad working until gone 6 in the evening and said he should be at home when he gets home like his other friends parents (apparently none of his other friends parents work so that would explain that). He’s decided that he no longer wants to go to his dad’s place of work (the thing that he used to get really excited about!) and that if he does go, he wants paying for it…

DP has explained that he can’t just drop work at 3pm and sit at home in the evening as he wouldn’t have enough money to pay for bills etc, so in light of this DSS has decided that from now on he will go with his grandmother every single night so that DP can work until around 6pm – great arrangement for everyone, or so we thought…
So she will collect him after school, go shopping, buy him the latest gadget, games, or trainers etc and then she will drive him around to his friends’ houses and sit outside in the car and wait for him until he’s ready to leave (yes really!)

DP has asked her not to do this as not only is it not fair on the other kids parents to have someone turning up every night of the week unannounced, but he is now expecting this to happen on a regular basis and if his grandmother cannot have him after school one night he now expects DP to do the same.

She agreed initially but then gives in when she collects DSS – he basically rules the roost when it comes to her. We have also asked her to cut down on the spending as he’s starting to take it for granted, and again she agrees initially but then gives in.

DSS attitude has changed dramatically since this arrangement has taken place – he brags about how loaded his grandmother and her family are and how he can’t wait to inherit it all, he has been given the login details to her online shopping accounts where he can order himself anything he pleases up to a certain value and is just acting completely spoilt!

He is learning not to look after things because “grandma will buy me a new one”
He has a brand new iphone and his grandmother has taken a £40 a month contract out for him so that he has unlimited amounts of minutes, texts, data etc.

When DP and I come home at night we have to do boring adult stuff like cook tea and wash dishes and put clothes in the washing machine. After we have all sat down and had tea (half of which gets wasted because DSS has already eaten something with his grandmother but still wants to eat with us) then we then sit in the living room together and either help DSS with his homework or watch something on TV or play a board game.

(with regards to the meals – I have requested that DSS doesn’t have anything as he’s already eaten but then he gets upset and says he’s being excluded on purpose! So I give him a tiny amount of which still gets wasted…)

Last night DP collected DSS from his grandmothers as usual and when they got home DSS went into the living room and played on his computer game – I started tea and DP started doing the recycling to take out at which point we could hear DSS crying.
DP went in to see what was wrong to which DSS replied he’s fed up of us coming home and doing nothing in the evening

We asked what we “should” be doing in the evening to which he responded going out, going shopping or going for meals!
DP explained that we can’t afford to go out and go shopping all the time and we have to work to pay bills or we can’t have any nice things, to which DSS responded that we should have worked harder to get better jobs so we can have lots of money like his grandmother!

We have explained that we DO work hard but different people have different jobs, we can’t all do the same job and different jobs earn different amounts of money but he has never gone hungry, or gone without and he has always come first which he will accept at that time, but then at least once a week the story will raise its head again.
We have tried to include him in the evenings with things like cooking tea, or helping with doing washing etc so he feels involved but he refuses and said that he expects to be paid for doing things like that and that childhood is all about having fun and not having to do anything like that.

We do set aside time to go out, DP will move work commitments, as will I and we will say we are going out on X day of the month and we will stick to it, however, if DSS decides that he’s changed his mind and doesn’t want to go because his grandmother has offered him a better incentive, then we are expected to drop the plans and not go out – if we do go out then there’s holy hell to pay the next day when DSS finds out! We get accused of purposely excluding him – DP favouring time with me over time with DSS etc .

So I suggested that just the two of them spend time together, so again once a month DP will move his commitments and take DS out either to the cinema or for a meal, but again this doesn’t seem enough for DSS.

I'm getting really fed up of his behaviour of late, he's stressing the both of us out but I don't know what to do/say and neither does DP. Everytime DP has a word, his DS just gets really upset saying he wishes he had never been born and he's too much of an inconvenience to his dad etc which absolutely breaks DPs heart.

Christmas is coming and he's given us a list of REALLY expensive items he expects to have, we have explained that we can’t afford half of them on the list to which he responds “fine – ill get my grandma to buy them then because I know she will”
AIBU to think that if this doesn't get nipped in the bud its going to get worse and worse

What would YOU do if this was happening to you? We obviously can’t stop him spending time with his grandmother and we can’t stop her spending money on him but something needs to be said to DSS but I’m not sure what or even how to approach it!

Can Grandma not use all that money she's got and enrol and escort him to some extra curricular? We dont do much thats very exciting after school, nor do most dc we know, mostly extra curricular classes, homework, music practise, in the summer we will go to the park. Just to let you know that spending evenings eating out and shopping is not the norm!

OP it's not many children that are rejected by their mother, but your DSS was, sadly. He will have to reconcile this with himself and maybe he sees his GM coming back into his life as some kind of "replacement figure".
It is very common for children who feel deprived of time and attention to want to over-compensate on material stuff. I saw it all the time in the care system. It's a defence against rejection and loss - filling the void.
The fact is that he is likely to need "more" attention than the average child and you both working so much over the years would be difficult for any child. I know your DP occupied him after school, but maybe as he gets older, he is realising that he always had to fit in to his dad's schedule. Now he is craving for things to be on his terms.
I think one of you may have to cut your hours or this will escalate into some quite anti-social behaviour in the teen years. If he can't get your time, it all becomes about your money. If he feels rejected by his mother, he will feel any small further rejections acutely and he will project this rage back into you.

Let's not forget that Grandma doesn't seem to have done a great job of raising her own daughter. She isn't really the best childcare choice.

You work 6 days a week and your dp 7 days a week. Then you spend every evening playing games. How old is your stepson now?

Sorry I keep forgetting to add! He's 8!

Perhaps given his fixation on money, shopping and material things, you could try introducing him being able o earn abit of money.
YOu could sit down with him and discuss what things are chorse he should do as a famil member - ie that he does for free or to earn a basic weekly pocket money allowance. (stuff like tidying his room helping with dishes etc)
The you could draw up a list of extras that you will pay at a certain rate, so he can earn more. I think he needs to understand that when funds are limited you have to make choices and decide what you really want, When he has saved for something he wants then you can plan a shopping trip to buy it.

It sounds as if you are doing plenty in term of attention playing games with him each evening, that is more than many parents do. But somehow he has equated attention with money, so he's not valuing the time you give him, and I think the first essentila to address that is to reduce contact with grandma and to tell her that she is creating a problem.

You need to sit down with Grandma, and discuss the impact of her spoiling him. It sounds to me as though she's trying to make up for lost time, and feels guilty she missed his early years. She needs to reign in the spending or she can't spend as much time with him.

It also sounds to me like some typical teenage behaviour. Although, ime more like teenage girl behaviour, rather than boy, but there you go. I'd expect all this to have cleared up by the time he's 18. Until then, you probably can't ever do the right thing in his eyes. Very frustrating (I've been there). Typically once they leave for Uni and see what it's like to be out on their own, their respect for you increases massively and they grow up over night.

I think regardless of everything else (how long you work etc) if you and more importantly your DH dont like the impact his grandma is having on him then stop contact with her.
A think a contract phone with data for an 8 year old is a bit of a concern as well and would be returning it to her.

He's not a teenager husky he's 8. And no one but grandma has any time for him so no wonder he looks to her even if she's a bit of a poisoned chalice.

My parents worked a lot when I was a child (two jobs for at least one of them at any given point) so I understand it can be difficult to spend quality time together. However I also know from experience that spoilt children can easily become spoilt adults.

I would explain to the grandmother that things really need to change as DSS is showing a blatant disregard for the things she buys him and he needs to learn that he can't be handed everything just because. It is understandable that she wants to treat her grandson but it should be in moderation.

Depending on his age I would seriously consider trying to find the time for you to do some charity work with him. Seeing how unfortunate other people are really can make a difference.

It is understandable that your DSS is struggling though and please try to remain patient with him. As I said I grew up with parents working six day weeks and it isn't always easy to be understanding as a child. Also, his grandmother suddenly being around is going to be a massive adjustment for him, even positive upheaval is still hard to adjust to.

Is there any way for your OH to reduce the hours he spends at work? Taking on an apprentice perhaps, or bringing home work to do when DSS is in bed?

Cut contact with Grandma. Cut it like an umbilical cord - quickly and cleanly. Grandma has very clearly been dripping poison in this 8 year old child's ear.

Get after school child care - after school club. it really doesn't matter that he'd rather be with grandma, it's tough shit.

Work 5 days a week and spend your two days off together, as a family, showing him you love him. Cook together, watch tv together, play on computer games together. SHOW him that love is attention and not things. So far he has had neither, and along came grandma and her things, and she has shown him love is things. Prove her wrong by being there.

Working 7 days a week when you are a child's only parent is neglect. grandma had a massive immediate effect because she acts like she wants him ariound, and his dad doesn't.

He’s 8?

Then he goes to after school club or the child minder and doesn’t get a choice about it. Stop letting him call the shots.

If your partner works 7 days a week then his business is not compatible with family life and he needs to rethink. For at least the next 5 years he needs to prioritise his son. That may mean finishing early one day a week, not working Sunday and only doing half a day on Saturday.

You are effectively co-parenting with a very indulgent grand parent and you have no clear agreements about what is and isn’t acceptable.

Hire proper childcare, limit after school with Granny to once a week, and your partner should spend more time with his son

Quite a lot of parents work 6/7 days a week. I grew up a farmer's daughter. Days out on "family stuff" were rarer than hens' teeth as cows needed milking twice a day every day! Mum was also heavily involved in farm life. Can't say I felt neglected - I spent hours down on the farm myself and learned to amuse myself (ponies helped!).

I don't think the problem is necessarily your work patterns. Sometimes you have to work long hours to support the family. We can't all work 9-5 Monday to Friday or have a parent who works part-time and can do the school pick up.

The problem would appear to be the grandmother's behaviour and the messages she is clearly giving the boy.

I think you need to limit contact. You also need to spell it out to grandmother in words of one syllable that the material spoiling stops immediately or contact will be severely curtailed. I am staggered that she is paying a mobile phone contract for an 8 year old! (did I read that right?)

Grandma needs boundaries to be set ASAP.

This little boy seems to have lost his mother and is now confusing love and maternal/ child attachment with material possessions. As does Grandma, tbh. Stop letting him rule the roost and create solid boundaries for him. Nothing is less secure for a child than feeling there are no boundaries.

I’ve deliberately used that word three times.

I think his grandmother is a really bad influence and she has no idea how to parent. I also think she's feeding him lines about being paid for doing things in the house - if his friends have a parent at home they won't have the money (usually) to be forking out money for jobs like that, so it's unlikely he's getting this from friends.

Who used to look after him at the weekend when you were both working?

re the mobile phone, just remove it. He shouldn't have it.

There is no was a child of 8 should be making so many decisions about what he will and will not do, I've never heard of anything so ridiculous.

He needs age appropriate activities and child care after school. Not an over indulging granny or dads work.

The way you were posting I thought he was a young teen. It's time for his dad to start parenting him.

Re helping at work - come on. nobody is falling for that shit. His dad took him to work because HE wanted to be at work, rather than doing something with his child. Your son is right, it was about convenience, and as a one off it isn't a problem, but 8 year old children should not be spenindg every day after school in a workplace setting.

I have an 8 year old I feel for him tbh it doesn’t seem like he’s getting much quality time when your both working 6/7 days a week. Where is the time to spend together going to the park at the weekend. He’s desperate for some attention, his mothers not on the scene and you both seem disinterested my ds wouldn’t be happy hanging around as his dads place of work all the time.

Yes, cut the daily grandma contact out. And do work less. 7 days a week is bonkers, poor boy does need some time not working in the family business or being looked after by others. He is still little. Pay the massive debt back a little slower.

Ask grandma to pitch in with her daughter's debt if she is so loaded.

When do you go out for the day, go bowling, cinema , trampoliing ? Anything fun? If dad is working 7 days a week?

An 8 year old doesn't get to dictate where they go. If he doesn't like after school club tough..However I do see the 7 days a week an issue and to assume an 8 year old would want to just hang around work for hours at a time is short sighted.

I also would be telling Grandma that if she can't stick to your rules you will be reducing contact.

Poor boy abandoned first by his mum and dad works 7 days a week, Step mum 6 and grandma showers him with stuff and sets no boundries but I think he was dictating what he does before she arrived.

And yes, like pps I thought teen, too. Sounds like Victorian days, help dad at the market stall or clean shoes after school. He needs to play football or mooch around. That is why he is so keen on going to his friends, they do age-appropriate stuff, he wants some of that life, too. That is why poor granny sits in the car to allow him some of it, she sees it is ridiculous to expect such a small child to sit in a workplace like it is 1870.

You do need to work less. It is not sustainable in the long term. I seriously damaged my business that way and now have to build it back up.

I also think she's feeding him lines about being paid for doing things in the house

Mmmm. Good point Disguise. WHat's the odds that when he is at Sugar Granny's house, he get "paid" for eating all of his tea, helping set the table, tidying his toys - even going for a wee!