To be fed up of DSS spoilt behaviour? Very long sorry!

[Chestnuts2017]

DP and his ex wife split up when his DS was 3, his mother left and moved away and since then DP has had full time custody of his DS.

I came along when DSS was 6 and we instantly hit it off, really lovely little boy and he thought the world of me too.

DP and I are self employed (different businesses) and DP often works long hours, as do I. DP works 7 days a week and I work 6. This initially wasn't a problem because DP is lucky that he has his own place of work (it’s not a shop where members of the public come into by the way),which was just around the corner from his DC's school. DSS couldn't wait to get back from school to go to his dad’s workplace and help out or just mooch around and do his own thing - he loved it which was perfect as DP could keep working, I’d often pop in on my way home to collect him but he was more than happy to stay with his dad helping him out, you couldn’t drag him away!

Here is where grandmother comes in (DP's ex MIL) - she also moved away not long after her daughter left but has recently moved back and wants more time with her grandson – fair enough.

She used to have him once a week after school and one stay overnight on the weekend which was great for DSS and great for us as it meant we could either keep working if we were nearing deadlines or we could just spend some time together in the evening.

Since this arrangement has taken place DSS has expressed his unhappiness of his dad working until gone 6 in the evening and said he should be at home when he gets home like his other friends parents (apparently none of his other friends parents work so that would explain that). He’s decided that he no longer wants to go to his dad’s place of work (the thing that he used to get really excited about!) and that if he does go, he wants paying for it…

DP has explained that he can’t just drop work at 3pm and sit at home in the evening as he wouldn’t have enough money to pay for bills etc, so in light of this DSS has decided that from now on he will go with his grandmother every single night so that DP can work until around 6pm – great arrangement for everyone, or so we thought…
So she will collect him after school, go shopping, buy him the latest gadget, games, or trainers etc and then she will drive him around to his friends’ houses and sit outside in the car and wait for him until he’s ready to leave (yes really!)

DP has asked her not to do this as not only is it not fair on the other kids parents to have someone turning up every night of the week unannounced, but he is now expecting this to happen on a regular basis and if his grandmother cannot have him after school one night he now expects DP to do the same.

She agreed initially but then gives in when she collects DSS – he basically rules the roost when it comes to her. We have also asked her to cut down on the spending as he’s starting to take it for granted, and again she agrees initially but then gives in.

DSS attitude has changed dramatically since this arrangement has taken place – he brags about how loaded his grandmother and her family are and how he can’t wait to inherit it all, he has been given the login details to her online shopping accounts where he can order himself anything he pleases up to a certain value and is just acting completely spoilt!

He is learning not to look after things because “grandma will buy me a new one”
He has a brand new iphone and his grandmother has taken a £40 a month contract out for him so that he has unlimited amounts of minutes, texts, data etc.

When DP and I come home at night we have to do boring adult stuff like cook tea and wash dishes and put clothes in the washing machine. After we have all sat down and had tea (half of which gets wasted because DSS has already eaten something with his grandmother but still wants to eat with us) then we then sit in the living room together and either help DSS with his homework or watch something on TV or play a board game.

(with regards to the meals – I have requested that DSS doesn’t have anything as he’s already eaten but then he gets upset and says he’s being excluded on purpose! So I give him a tiny amount of which still gets wasted…)

Last night DP collected DSS from his grandmothers as usual and when they got home DSS went into the living room and played on his computer game – I started tea and DP started doing the recycling to take out at which point we could hear DSS crying.
DP went in to see what was wrong to which DSS replied he’s fed up of us coming home and doing nothing in the evening

We asked what we “should” be doing in the evening to which he responded going out, going shopping or going for meals!
DP explained that we can’t afford to go out and go shopping all the time and we have to work to pay bills or we can’t have any nice things, to which DSS responded that we should have worked harder to get better jobs so we can have lots of money like his grandmother!

We have explained that we DO work hard but different people have different jobs, we can’t all do the same job and different jobs earn different amounts of money but he has never gone hungry, or gone without and he has always come first which he will accept at that time, but then at least once a week the story will raise its head again.
We have tried to include him in the evenings with things like cooking tea, or helping with doing washing etc so he feels involved but he refuses and said that he expects to be paid for doing things like that and that childhood is all about having fun and not having to do anything like that.

We do set aside time to go out, DP will move work commitments, as will I and we will say we are going out on X day of the month and we will stick to it, however, if DSS decides that he’s changed his mind and doesn’t want to go because his grandmother has offered him a better incentive, then we are expected to drop the plans and not go out – if we do go out then there’s holy hell to pay the next day when DSS finds out! We get accused of purposely excluding him – DP favouring time with me over time with DSS etc .

So I suggested that just the two of them spend time together, so again once a month DP will move his commitments and take DS out either to the cinema or for a meal, but again this doesn’t seem enough for DSS.

I'm getting really fed up of his behaviour of late, he's stressing the both of us out but I don't know what to do/say and neither does DP. Everytime DP has a word, his DS just gets really upset saying he wishes he had never been born and he's too much of an inconvenience to his dad etc which absolutely breaks DPs heart.

Christmas is coming and he's given us a list of REALLY expensive items he expects to have, we have explained that we can’t afford half of them on the list to which he responds “fine – ill get my grandma to buy them then because I know she will”
AIBU to think that if this doesn't get nipped in the bud its going to get worse and worse

What would YOU do if this was happening to you? We obviously can’t stop him spending time with his grandmother and we can’t stop her spending money on him but something needs to be said to DSS but I’m not sure what or even how to approach it!

There are lots of free/ cheap things that you could do together. It's a cop-out to restrict this interaction to once a month.
How many hints can he drop that his evenings/weekends shouldn't consist of going home, washing, cooking, homework and bed.

Going out for a meal doesn't have to be expensive either. There are usually loads of deals. But this requires research.

Children's interests change. Where he was once happy to go to the workplace, 7 days a week is a lot. And of course, he would lose interest.

Is it really worth continuing putting in all these hours for nothing? There seems to be no quality of life for anyone. As an adult, I wouldn't have the motivation to continue this work for a treat once a month. Or to spend so little time interacting with my children.

Trips to the park. Walk by the water. Bike rides. Kick a ball around in the park. Board games. Arts and crafts at home. Fun museums. Picnics. Gardening. Water fights in the summer. Concerts in the park in the summer - there's free/cheap local ones, not talking the big ones. Splatter paint outside or recreate other artists work. Build a fort. Decorate windows. Science experiments. Rockets. Plus loads more

Goodness, you're getting a lot of flack for working so many hours. Sometimes, these things aren't a choice, they're a necessity.

OP, you have my sympathy. It's impossible to be all things to all people, and sometimes you have little choice. So, given the fact that you and your husband have to work a lot of hours, can you tweak them a little? I"m sure you've already considered this, but could one of you start work early, say 7ish, so that you can finish at school pick up time? The other can do the school run in the morning and then work until a little later? Then you could pick work up once he's in bed, if needs be?

We do this as we also have to put in an insane amount of hours but we also know we don't want the kids being in clubs or with relatives all the time. He could go to Grandma's once or twice a week, and the rest of the week you each juggle earlier starts and finishes, so he's getting more quality time. It does sound like he's being spoilt, and you need to act now to nip it in the bud. I can see Grandma's trying to make up for her daughter's disappearing act, and also trying to make him happy.

Have you tried having a meeting with Grandma, telling her the behaviour changes and negative characteristics that are starting to surface? Appeal to her better nature, ask her to help You to get DSS back on track. Work out some compromises.

Is his DM in the picture at all?

A few things (sorry if I am repeating what some pp have said)

• 8yo dint decide what you all do at weekends. They dint decide as such if they go to an afetr school club or doing some activity/sport. An 8yo NEEDS to be doing some sort of sport, whatever it is, for their own health. Now and later. It’s also a very good way to burn off energy and feel good in yourself. I wouldn’t give him any choice on that.
• I am wondering about the influence of the grand mother and what she is telling him. It’s a very big change for an 8yo to go from really enjoying simeth8ng to suddenly hating it, be so focused on money and how he is going to inherit etc... this is coming form somewhere.
• your DP needs to look at his working pattern vs looking after his ds and being a parent. Every weekend spent working means very little time to do things as a family. And his ds can’t spend the whole weekend, very weekend, at the workshop. You need some other arrangement, whatever it is (but avoiding involving the grandmother IMO)
• finally, yes it’s great that the exMIL wants to see her grandson. However, your u can’t use her as an alternative childcare and send your ds there everywekend. He should be with your DP. And iwth tu if you need to ‘take turns’ (eg a day with his dad, a day with you at weekend).
• last but not least, you need to find a way to make that child your priority. Or at least your DP’s priority. He NEEDS it badly.

Nowhere in the post does he seem anything other than an inconvenience they pay minimal attention to.

I agree. Try spending time with him, OP. It’s what most children want.

If you own your own business, it is easier to be flexible with hours isn’t it? I just can’t see how two parents working different businesses can’t build in enough flexibility to spend some time with their child after school or in the evening. It sounds like you are both choosing your businesses than your child. I understand the bills need to be paid, but unless you are earning minimum wage, there should be no need to work 6 and 7 days a week to pay the bills.

He's 8. His mother has cut ties. His father works 7 days a week. His Stepmum works 6 days a week - not for the love of work alone but to service a large debt as explained by the OP. His Grandma is indulging him, probably to compensate for her daughter abandoning her grandson. Nobody is acting badly here but clearly there needs to be changes to the way the DSS is being parented and the adults need to take responsibility for that. An 8 year old boy needs a firm, consistent and reassuring hand.

I know two boys whose mothers both left them at a young age. They are in their teens now and both have really struggled through life with feelings of guilt, fear, anger, alienation and that will be with them always to some degree. One of them has had a very bad run of it, mental health interventions etc. These boys really need extra attention/parenting. That's not the same as spoiling them but it does mean giving them as much time and nurturing as you possibly can.

Poor kid, feel for him, he need emotional nurturing, But he doesn’t get to decide what happens in the house and rule the roost. You are both self employed - why don’t you split pick ups?
E.g.
Monday - Dad starts work early and does pick up
Tues - Mum starts work early does pick up
Wed - after school/childminder
Thurs - goes to dads work
Frid - goes to gran, she does tea or he stays over so you can work late or spend some time together.

I would be asking him to pick one extra curricular activity that he has to do and I would be ensuring that one morning or afternoon at the weekend is solely focused on him and what he wants to do (Swimming, park, cinema).

I appreciate you have to work hard to pay the bills etc but it’s not the be all and end all. If you are having to work so hard for so little financial reward would you be better getting an employed position instead?

He's 8 and been dealt with a shitty hand (mum leaving, dad working 7 days a week) - of course he's going to be testing how much the adults in his life love him.
You need to sit down with the grandma and come up with some rules like he can play with his friends for an hour after school before being picked up or whatever.
The grandma is clearly over-compensating for her dd's behaviour and may welcome having her contact cut to once or twice a week. It can't be fun listening to the constant emotional blackmail from dss.
Dss needs some counselling. He's in a crap situation with dad working 7 days a week and mum abandoning him. He needs his self-esteem bolstered and to learn that he can count on grandma, dad and you to be stable and constant influences in his life.

He's 8 years old so doesn't dictate things. He could have a choice of childminder or after-school club if that suits you but neither is not an option. Children need to see the adults in their life in control so that they can learn to depend on them. The adults need to stop pandering to his emotional manipulation because it's going to cause future problems. Do you think friends, girlfriends etc are going to bend over this kind of behaviour? He does this because past experience proves that it works.

Your h really needs to do better than one day a month dedicated to dss. He doesn't have to spend money to achieve this btw.

Have you look into sorting out the debt so pay less now and have more time and money for DSS you only 5 more years of him a child .

Who's name is the debt in?
There are also ways to get this reduced such as charges and some of the interest.
It can also be renegotiated to pay smaller payments to free up some cash.

You and his father are giving this child too much responsibility for himself. He is a child and he shouldn’t be allowed or enabled to make adult decisions.

Your parenting style sounds very similar to the parents of two only children I know. My dd is an only child also btw. Both these children are 9 and in yr5 so of similar age. Please read what is happening to these kids. Your dss is in the same difficulty.

1). A girl is left to fend for herself for 2-3 hours whilst her mother private tutors. Every evening. She is often online and her mother has no idea of what she is up to. She has introduced dds friend to messaging services and websites and bullied this friend through that media. She is a sweet girl. But her parents are clueless and she doesn’t know how to act. The mother is understandably desperate for her dd to have as many play dates as possible.

2). A boy. His grandparents were picking him up from school when the parents at work. Mother not quite full time, father full time. As long as I have known him, he has been spoken to and listened to as though he were an adult. Overindulged and left to form inappropriate opinions. I’ve known him from the start of School aged 4. He now has some serious psychological issues and has been School refusing since the beginning of the last summer term meaning that he has almost missed 2 terms of school.

Your dss is in crisis. This calls for crisis management. Something has to give. And it is going to have to be the money you or more importantly his dad earns if you want to save him.

• You say your dss wants to earn money. Perhaps his dad could get him to work alongside him on one of his projects. This could be a good reintroduction to the business.

• His father MUST work fewer hours.

• send him to a childminder a couple of times a week.

• organise trips and activities and don’t give your dss a choice of whether or not he goes with grandma.

• cut contact or seriously reduce contact with grandma. She is toxic.

• organise a play date with his friends once a week at your house, which will give his dad time to work. The benefit of this is that hopefully he will be invited back another time.

• cultivate an out of school activity or two that his dad takes him to.

• enroll him in an after school activity one evening a week so that he can be picked up an hour later most weeks.

He's playing you all but you're letting him.

At 8 I was at after school club or at a friend's house because mum and dad both worked. He cannot refuse these types arrangements. He's 8! Unfortunately now this gran has completely spoilt him. She really needs to start saying no to some things however given that she brought up a daughter who felt able to abandon her son I'm not sure how much reason you'll get from her.

I would not allow your DSS to see his GM unsupervised. She's destroying him-although his friendship groups doesn't seem to be helping either.

I think that your mistake was allowing grandma to be the main parent, by picking him up 5 days a week and overnight stay.

The boy may well need more time with his Dad, but at the moment he now knows

• He can manipulate people in his life to do what he wants
• He can complain and then gets rewarded
• he knows grandma will do what he wants, will not parent him and will not work with his Dad

What age is he? If under 16 just tell the boy he’s not going to grandmas every day. She’s not his guardian.

I agree that your DSS is being too much adult decision making responsibility. At 8 years old, he needs to be told that he's going to such and such an activity, or a childminder, no discussion. The adults make the decision and it's final.

Is the mother not paying her way? Is that maybe one of the reasons why money is short and these hours need to be worked?

On the whole grandma sounds a bad influence. Limit the time he spends with her. You can do that. You're his parents.

7 days a week is a lot... could there be a compromise?

8??? Hes calling all the shots. Stop him!

I feel sorry for him - he's eight and neither of his parents have any time for him. His mum fucked off and doesn't see him, and his dad works seven days a week.

Then grandma comes along who is willing to buy him gifts, take him to see his friends and spend time with him after school - of course he idolises her and looks up to her! She's the only one who has any time for him - everyone else has either abandoned him or is too busy working.

I understand you both need to work but honestly, seven days a week when you have a child is ridiculous. If being self-employed isn't working then maybe DP needs to get a different job with a regular wage. Not everyone can afford to work for themselves and he risks ruining the relationship he has with his son if he carries on the way he is.

I think you both working such long hours to "pay for nice things" has taught him that money/gifts = love. And grandma buying him the latest gadgets won't be helping that mindset. But if you want to use her as free childcare, you don't really get to dictate what she does in that time.

His father MUST work fewer hours

Ah yes because we can all drop hours left right and centre with no financial impact can't we?

I can't believe some of these comments. These people are working their arses off to give the kid a good upbringing and to make sure they're secure and have a roof over his head and food in his belly! Those of you saying that they should work less are being unreasonable. They're doing their best. The kid is a spoilt brat! OP does the child see his mother? This might be more of an issue. You're trying to accommodate him by setting dates to go out on then he changes his mind and goes elsewhere so you decide to take the opportunity to go out Just the two of you, good! But he has the audacity to kick off??? This makes no sense he's a spoilt brat. You need to meet up with the grandma and explain his behaviour completely, say that she's making him like this and he's playing her. He's going to grow up to be an asshole. If you think he needs counselling take him to the doctor. You must be exhausted OP! This is going to put such a strain on your relationship! He's the CHILD he shouldn't be ruling the roost! Boundaries need to be set. If he kicks off and says you don't care then tell him that if you didn't care he wouldn't have anything and he would be neglected etc etc. Absolutely crazy, this can't continue!

The harsh truth is you’ve prioritised the convenience of grandma as childcare provider, above the developmental needs of an eight year old.
You are his parents, not grandma and definitely not an eight year old.

I get it, you have childcare problems which need solving but grandma is not a solution that’s in this young boys interest. Something’s got to give but handwringing and complaining about this young child’s attitude, given the poor leadership in his life is just not on.

You and his father need to step up, this boy is crying out for attention and what worked for him and you at 5,6 and 7 isn’t working at 8. Grandma is filling a void poorly and ultimately the buck stops with those with PR

Agree with Sugar Granny helping to pay off her DD debts instead of spoiling her DGS absolutely rotten. Sounds like she’s trying to make up for several years absence and making him a little horror in the process. She needs to back off and respect the values you’re trying to teach him or not be allowed to be around him to influence him so terribly.

Loveactually

Did I say that? Talk about taking posts out of context to fit your agenda. I explained in the previous paragraph they’d need to take a financial hit. Op hasn’t said they’re living hand to mouth and seeing as dss has a computer game, it would be a fair assumption that they are not.

mummy but they might be if dad MUST drop his hours?

And you did say that, as a single bullet point. I've literally just copied and pasted what you wrote.

We have three games consoles (all relatively new) 3 tablets a smart tv and 2 normal tv's and 3 new smart phones in our house. of either of us worked less hours we'd be on the bones of our arse. Stop assuming.

Zoenichol this is a child we are talking about. A child who has been through a major family break up..and with no siblings and sees not that much if his step mum and his dad

He is only spoilt because of the behaviour of adults around him. How sad for this kid.

Even if the parents have to work they shouldnt blame the child for his grandmothers poor parenting of him.