To say that the UK is not a Rape Culture?

[PatriarchyPersonified]

So I have had an argument with a lady I work with today that has ended with her calling me the "Patriarchy Personified", hence the name.

She claimed that the UK was a Rape Culture. I completely disagree and it feels like this is more creeping 'third wave' bullshit.

If you look at the definition of Rape Culture which is:

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Then it's clear that she is wrong. I don't disagree that there are elements of UK society that I would argue probably are characterised in this way, but you can not describe the whole UK in those terms.

She was extremely unhappy to be challenged, I work with her on a weekly basis and I've got a feeling I'm not going to have heard the last of this!

There are so many things wrong with your post carefree I’m not sure where to start.

I think I’ll just leave someone else to tear you to shreds about thinking you’d be privy to knowledge about your friends rape experiences, your blatant victim blaming and your distinction between ‘rape’ and ‘non consensual sex’

Tell you what OP. If you’re looking for evidence of rape culture just check careferee’s post out. I’m out.

Carefree, I'm sure you'd like to believe that but it's rubbish. This is not the only reason conviction rates are low. I watched a documentary where the police were interviewing a suspect rapist. During questioning he admitted to forcing anal sex without asking her, but claimed the overall sexual encounter was consensual. The police didn't even pick up on the fact that this in itself was a confession of sexual assault/rape. Rape culture teaches people that things like "pretending you got the wrong hole" is just a laugh and acceptable and not assault, it minimises, and makes excuses for this behaviour, that's the whole point.

@ReanimatedSGB I was just wondering why someone was so invested in proving women wrong when he simply wouldn't know, not being on the receiving end.

It's sounds like offence at the suggestion that men shared responsibility for rape culture.

Then coming into a predominantly female website to try to prove more women wrong. It's a hobby I suppose.

Rapists are viewed as some of the lowest of the low, many criminals consider rapists and paedophiles to be scum compared to "normal" criminals.

Really? Are they? Like Mike Tyson? Like several footballers that have already been named here? Like Woody Allen? Like R. Kelly? Like Roman Polanski???

MrsTerryPratchett

How does not being a woman mean I can't know if the UK is a Rape Culture or not? Are men never raped? Do you apply that same logic to all other crimes?

Angel

You made the claim about 1 in 4 women, not me. I just asked where it came from. Why have I got to google it? It's your assertion, not mine.

Yabu.

We might not be as bad as some countries but we still have a rape culture.

If you accept the OP's definition of a rape culture being a 'society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse' then the UK is certainly not a rape culture.

I would say, by that definition, the UK is definitely a rape culture.

Sexual assault and abuse is normal and normalised here, and it's certainly trivialised.

MrsTerryPratchett

I came on a predominantly female website specifically to get opinions that differ from my own. That's how we grow as people surely?

I'm fully prepared to be proved wrong by the way, I just haven't heard any convincing arguments yet. Just straw men implying I'm a rape apologist etc.

If you grow as a person as a result of this I'm a tiny unicorn named Fred.

OP you can only grow if you listen to what people say to you.

If you block your ears and simply repeat your own point, you won't learn a thing.

Why do you think people on MN would have different opinions to you?

You are trying to get me to say something ridiculous like I believe a certain religious or ethnic group is a Rape Culture.

No I wasn’t. I was merely asking you to explain your own statement.

Riding

Nobody has addressed my actual point (which is what happened during this discussion in real life).

To reiterate:

I strongly agree that Rape Culture exists as a concept.

I agree that some areas/groups within the UK may be categorised as Rape Cultures,

However

The UK as a collective entity is not a Rape Culture.

That's my entire point. Nothing more.

Bananas

I would disagree with your point.

For example:

The concept of a Drug Culture exists.

Some areas/communities in the UK are best described as Drug Cultures.

The UK is not best described as a Drug Culture.

The concept of Gun Culture exists. (See the USA)

Some areas/communities in the UK can be described as Gun Cultures.

The UK is not best described as a Gun Culture.

My argument for Rape Culture is identical.

As I said OP - if you keep repeating your own point and refuse to listen to other people's' you can't "grow". That post is a good example.

People who assert that the UK has a rape culture need to back up their case with some comparisons. So please furnish us -
compared to which other countries do we have a rape culture?

Riding

If you disagree with my statement then refute it. I'd genuinely be interested to know why it's wrong.

So far I've been told I'm wrong and to stop repeating myself. Nobody has shown me why my point is wrong?

But the legal system is overarching all UK culture and that does support a rape culture. Ergo, we have a rape culture in our country try as a whole.

As I said before, there are other places that have something even worse and need a stronger term so it doesn't make the phrase meaningless at all.

I would bet that almost every women has heard some variation on, "she deserved it" "it was her clothes" "she didn't say no" "she shouldn't have been there" "she shouldn't have been drinking" to justify rape. From a very young age. Repeatedly. THAT'S rape culture. A culture in which every woman polices her behaviour based on the fear of rape and also the fear of being blamed for her own rape.

Normalising and trivialising and it happens to every woman.

I disagree with you, OP.

agree that some areas/groups within the UK may be categorised as Rape Cultures,

However

The UK as a collective entity is not a Rape Culture

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Please don't bother with this idiot.

He is arguing there isn't a rape culture when he has no idea what the lifetime chance of a woman being raped is and has no intention of ever looking it up - he expects a woman to do it for him (the irony).

He also said having a 1 in 4 chance of being raped in prison would constitute a rape culture.

He is an idiot.

Broken

How does the legal system support Rape Culture? Rape as a crime is always going to be incredibly difficult to prove because it (usually) happens in private. I don't see it could be any other way without abandoning the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty'.