To say that the UK is not a Rape Culture?

[PatriarchyPersonified]

So I have had an argument with a lady I work with today that has ended with her calling me the "Patriarchy Personified", hence the name.

She claimed that the UK was a Rape Culture. I completely disagree and it feels like this is more creeping 'third wave' bullshit.

If you look at the definition of Rape Culture which is:

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Then it's clear that she is wrong. I don't disagree that there are elements of UK society that I would argue probably are characterised in this way, but you can not describe the whole UK in those terms.

She was extremely unhappy to be challenged, I work with her on a weekly basis and I've got a feeling I'm not going to have heard the last of this!

Angel

Again I haven't said it's ok and nobody should be worried. That's another straw man.

A rape rate of 1 in 4 could easily be categorised as a Rape Culture. There is a clear difference there between that and the UK at large. Surely you can see that?

Someone earlier on implied that the whole world was in fact a Rape Culture. If that really is the case, then the phrase 'Rape Culture' doesn't have any meaning.

If you accept the OP's definition of a rape culture being a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse then the UK is certainly not a rape culture.

Rape is not accepted or tolerated in the UK. Rapists are viewed as some of the lowest of the low, many criminals consider rapists and paedophiles to be scum compared to "normal" criminals.

Yes the rape figures are too high - one is too high - but rape is not viewed as being in any way acceptable by the majority of people. But just because a minority of people think sexual assualt is sometimes OK, does not mean that society as a whole believes it.

PiffleandWiffle we all know there are worse places to live, that doesn't mean we need to shut up and accept what we have.

As you don’t experience it in every day life it’s not your place to invalidate female experience of the culture they live.
Your argument is basically that other places have WORSE rape culture therefore UK rape culture simply doesn’t exist.

Which is as offensive as it is bollocks.

A bit like the argument given by meaty that ‘women also talk about men like they are sex objects too’

As if it is done in equal measure with equal power balance and absent of structures that increase the power of those words.

It really is as bad as white people who do not live and breathe racism in their culture telling people of colour racism is not an inherent part of culture. You don’t know because you simply don’t know and don’t experience it.

StreetLife70s

Your argument is basically that other places have WORSE rape culture therefore UK rape culture simply doesn’t exist.

That categorically not my argument. I outlined my argument in my first post.

Still waiting for an explanation of “communities” OP..?

A rape rate of 1 in 4 could easily be categorised as a Rape Culture. There is a clear difference there between that and the UK at large. Surely you can see that?

Really, well how interesting because that is believed to be the same rate as women in the U.K risks in her lifetime. So a 1 in 4 chance of being raped in prison, to you, is rape culture, but a 1 in 4 chance of a woman being raped in her life, is not? Care to explain why? Is it because in one example, it would be happening to you?

How bad does it have to be before it's counted as a part of our culture? (in your head).

How many recorded instances of racism, or rape (pick a crime, any crime, doesn't matter which) and give us an indication of whether it counts as being a part of UK culture, or just a 'small pocket' that therefore somehow doesn't count.

It's a weird argument - a part of a society that is known about, recorded, discussed, has statistical evidence, has laws relating to it, but somehow YOU are not including it as part of the culture of the country? I don't understand how you see that as logical. It doesn't make sense.

Afternoon tea is part of British culture. Drinking in pubs is another thing. It doesn't mean that 100% of people do those things every day. Probably less than 50% of people, and for less than 50% of the days in the year, but it doesn't mean they're not part of the culture in the UK. To claim that it's 'only some people, not all of them' and therefore doesn't count would make me look like an idiot.

Your willful blindness to sexism and racism makes you look both sexist and racist.

I do understand your point, don't think it is entirely invalid, but don't think I agree.

The fact that you can't bring rapists to justice easily here implies rape culture. High up people (not all though)with the power to make change minimise, brush under the carpet, and point the finger at the victims. That IS our culture.

There are some hideous places in the world where it is much much worse. That doesn't make the term rape culture meaningless, because the term isn't strong enough for there. Those places don't have a 'rape culture'. They have a 'women are treated like the dregs of society and have become the scapegoat for the atrocities of the way their men are raised' culture.

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

You outlined your point by using this as an example. And I strongly disagree with you because we live in a society where the trivialising and normalising of sexual assault and abuse is absolutely prevalent.

BenLui

There probably is no defining characteristic of a group that could be characterised as a localised Rape Culture. It comes down to the social values of the individuals involved, as well as there environment and perceptions.

You are trying to get me to say something ridiculous like I believe a certain religious or ethnic group is a Rape Culture. That's categorically not my position.

*i should change this actually, it's sexual assault in both cases, not rape alone.

Please watch this documentary about rape both male and female rape.

rapecrisis.org.uk/news/10-survivors-speak-out-on-channel-5-documentary-raped-my-sto

Is there a reason for the capitalisation of "rape culture"?

Do you think porn is part of rape culture seeing as so much of it now is violent?

Angel

Are you saying that a woman has a one in four chance of being raped in her life in the UK?

Where is that stat coming from?

A 1 in 4 chance of being raped or sexually assaulted, the same as men who are in prison face. Yet you only see one as rape culture, the one that you could experience....

I'm sure to you, as a man, it's easy to ignore...

Angel

I don't see it as different. I just struggle to take that statistic at face value. Where has it come from?

Google it for god sake, I'm not your teach and you should educate yourself on this subject before arguing with a woman at work about it who, may well have been a victim herself. Your arrogance is unbelievable.

The reason rape is difficult to prove is that there are usually no witnesses, and that just proving sex happened doesn't prove it was rape. You can't convict someone with only the evidence of one person saying they did it. It's always going to be very difficult to prove either way and I don't see the rates increasing much unless people start videoing/recording things.

*teacher

*If you accept the OP's definition of a rape culture being a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse then the UK is certainly not a rape culture.

Rape is not accepted or tolerated in the UK. Rapists are viewed as some of the lowest of the low, many criminals consider rapists and paedophiles to be scum compared to "normal" criminals.

Yes the rape figures are too high - one is too high - but rape is not viewed as being in any way acceptable by the majority of people. But just because a minority of people think sexual assualt is sometimes OK, does not mean that society as a whole believes it.*

This^

Still want to know why OP is so keen to tell women they are being silly and making a fuss about rape...