To say that the UK is not a Rape Culture?

[PatriarchyPersonified]

So I have had an argument with a lady I work with today that has ended with her calling me the "Patriarchy Personified", hence the name.

She claimed that the UK was a Rape Culture. I completely disagree and it feels like this is more creeping 'third wave' bullshit.

If you look at the definition of Rape Culture which is:

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Then it's clear that she is wrong. I don't disagree that there are elements of UK society that I would argue probably are characterised in this way, but you can not describe the whole UK in those terms.

She was extremely unhappy to be challenged, I work with her on a weekly basis and I've got a feeling I'm not going to have heard the last of this!

Why does this matter so much to you in the first place? Why were you 'challenging' her? Your colleague doesn't have to share your opinions any more than you have to share hers. It's possible that either she or someone she cares about will have had experience of sexual abuse/assault from men and seen it brushed off and dismissed, or been blamed for 'provoking' the man. (FFS do NOT ask her if this is the case. It's none of your business and you've already shown her you have little sympathy for victims of male violence.)

If she brings up the subject again, say politely that you think it's better not to discuss politics at work. Do not be the one to restart the conversation in the hope of 'winning' the argument.

I think YABU. About 80% of my female friends including me have been sexually assaulted at some point in their lives and a good 40% of those have actually been raped. The numbers are very high generally. If you havent experienced this then really you are lucky.
Now I am married to a wonderful man, I have a wonderful father and great male friends who I know would never dream of harming women. But I have also met many many men that would. I do think its ingrained in our culture. Its not as bad as it is in other parts of the world but it is still very much a problem here.

I think rapists must be happy about the fact that not only do they get away with what they do on a very regular basis, women are also convinced there's no real problem. It's a real victory on their part to have women so willing to just accept the situation and claim it could be worse.

If you were having sex with someone, and you weren't enjoying it, would you tell them to stop? Most women wouldn't. Because we are taught to believe that (m-f) sex is something men do to women, not something that two people choose to do together. Men have sex with us because we let them, and if we aren't clear enough about what we want, then that's our fault. I'm in my 40s now, and am only just beginning to see how messed up my thinking has been about this stuff. We tell women not to wear revealing clothes, get too drunk, walk home alone etc, but we don't say to men "If you don't want to be accused of rape, don't have sex with extremely drunk women. Make sure you really have consent". The focus is always on the woman. This to my mind makes it a rape culture.

There is no reason a woman should ever be raped. It's not an inevitable thing that we just have to put up with. Why do women act as though it's just part of life, something we have work around?

YABU

Your argument is very “not all men”

Of course not everyone minimises, excuses and ignores rape, sexual assault, sexual harrassment and the objectification of women, but enough people do it for it to be a dominant trend in our society. Hence we do have a rape culture. Some people challenge it but not enough do.

YA also BU for repeatedly saying that “the UK is (or is not) a rape culture”. Grammatically that’s wrong. It has a rape culture. That’s just one aspect of society/life in the UK.

Are you really a woman?

Two more words: Jimmy Carr

Apologises for the delay in response.

I think there is a tendency to miss my point here and argue against a straw man. I'm saying that you cannot classify the UK as a Rape Culture. Not that rape and sexual assault do not exist.

As a few posters have identified, you are actually safer in the UK from sexual violence than nearly anywhere else in the world. That doesn't mean we shouldn't care about the victims. My objection is how these things are being framed.

If we categorise the UK as a Rape Culture, despite it being one of the safest places in the world in regards to sexual violence, then words simply don't have meaning anymore.

If that is true I'd ask you to name somewhere that isn't a Rape Culture? I'd also ask what the criteria would be for the UK to not be one?

It feels like some people believe that if anyone anywhere is ever raped or sexually assaulted, it means we live in a Rape Culture. Where does that ever end? The term becomes meaningless.

These are the key points I made to my colleague.

As I said before, I didn't bring it up, she did. She was implying that men had some sort of collective guilt over this.

I am a man by the way.

Do you also tell black people that Britain isn't racist?

*LeCroissant
*
Yes, because it's not.

Ah right so you're a total idiot.

Good to know.

I'm out.

OK, so you mansplained sexual assault to a woman, and then when she wasn't convinced by your bullshit, you decided to come to a website mostly used by women, to mansplain some more.
What's the matter? Are HR looking into your history at the moment?

Or, the UK has a rape culture that isn't as bad as other places, but still a rape culture is another way of looking at it. Why is it not possible for there to be a widespread rape culture, globally?

The number of rapes in the UK and the rate of prosecution for rape is acceptable to you, and not in any way evidence of a rape culture?

LeCroissant

I don't think your saying what you think your saying.

Is your question 'is there some racism in the UK?' In which case the answer is yes.

If your question is 'is the UK racist?'** The answer is no.

This is old, from 2009, but it shows that England and Wales has a conviction rate of less than 7%, Scotland 3% and France 25%.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5321555/Britain-has-lowest-rape-conviction-rate-in-Europe-study-finds.html

Assassinated

It's not a question of acceptability. That's clearly not what what I'm saying. It's a question of use of language.

Yes because when 85,000 women are raped every year, what is really really important is use of language.

IDIOT.

What exact evidence or information would convince you that there is a rape culture?

I think that calling the UK a 'rape culture' trivialises the term. Women who live in genuine rape cultures live a reality completely different to ours. If she can't see that then there must be sonething wrong with her. Obviously there are problems in the UK regarding this but there is no need to over dramatise. The way that UK public and institutions respond to rape and sexual assault is no less valid a concern because it's not bad enough to be called a rape culture.

Thank god a man has come along to educate women about rape. So it's not a big deal and we're very safe and we shouldn't worry about the violent porn everywhere, or that women often get blamed for being raped, or that almost every women I know has been assaulted. Phew. Thanks love, you've made me feel so much better....

Let me ask you something, if you went to prison, you'd have a 1 in 4 chance of being raped by another man. Chances are you wouldn't speak out about it either. Do you think rape culture exists in prison?

Oh ffs, so you're a man trying to tell women the 'truth' about rape and sexual assault towards women? Fuck off.

I think a lot of people posting on here have never lived in a country that has a real rape culture.

The UK isn't perfect, but I can assure you - there's a lot worse places to live....

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/women-dont-need-ched-evans-advice-rape/amp/

"Explain to young men that when you have sex with someone who is too drunk, tired or frightened to tell you how they feel about it, then it’s not sex: it’s rape."

This

I am firmly in the NAMALT section of society but we are no where near the AMANLT which is where we need to be. It is for us to teach our boys as young as possible about consent and appropriate contact.