To say that the UK is not a Rape Culture?

[PatriarchyPersonified]

So I have had an argument with a lady I work with today that has ended with her calling me the "Patriarchy Personified", hence the name.

She claimed that the UK was a Rape Culture. I completely disagree and it feels like this is more creeping 'third wave' bullshit.

If you look at the definition of Rape Culture which is:

a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse.

Then it's clear that she is wrong. I don't disagree that there are elements of UK society that I would argue probably are characterised in this way, but you can not describe the whole UK in those terms.

She was extremely unhappy to be challenged, I work with her on a weekly basis and I've got a feeling I'm not going to have heard the last of this!

Did you even read the article megs?

The PSNI seem unable to use the words "sex" or "penetration", which is why they come out with these ridiculous slogans. If you change "it" to "sex", they make much more sense (and are legally accurate).

Actual tweet: "when you are out socialising over the Christmas period, please remember without consent it is rape"

Should be: "when you are out socialising over the Christmas period, please remember sex without consent is rape"

We break one; they send another. It is Christmas after all.

Or maybe it's Xmas from Futurama...

This thread is interesting. I've learned a lot in my adult years about this type of thing. One being that even my own attitude was wrong when I was younger.
I had a boyfriend when I was 18 who was only with me for sex. Once, we were both getting ready to go out and he decided he wanted to have sex with me and so he did. No warning... he just had sex with me. I remember feeling uncomfortable with it at the time but I didn't tell him to stop because he was my BF, I thought he was 'allowed' to do it. It's only been recently that I've thought that was wrong and he shouldn't have done that.

God this is STILL going.

Oh I am bloody sorry for wading in with my experience!!!! Did I disturb you?!!!

Ethelfleda, I don't think you're alone, sadly. And I think that one of the reasons people get so defensive in threads like this is that they subconsciously want to avoid thinking about their own behaviour. That goes for men and women......

mrst

Its like a tag team!!

ethilifleda

Just finished reading this thread.

There is no way OP wasn't just a shit stirring troll.

It should be used as some sort of educational tool.

They do rather shoot themselves in the foot when they insist that women carefully, patiently and repeatedly explain exactly what the problems are with misogynistic attitudes and behaviours

I’m only up to the posts at 7pm on Sunday.

I asked DH if he felt me saying many rapes are committed by ordinary men is an insult to him. He looked confused, then said no, of course not.
My dh is as ordinary as they come, talking to him about the thread and he said he thinks some ordinary men might find it an insult to say many rapes are carried out by ordinary men rape, because they think you’re saying all ordinary men rape and get defensive.

I know several women who have been raped, reading MN made me more confident to talk about my own rape, we were all raped by someone we knew and trusted, ordinary men, men you wouldn’t suspect it from, and men who, apart from my rapists, were not convicted and have everyone in their life defending them and say the ordinary man was falsely accused..

As long as society paints out rapists to be nasty men lurking in alleyways, as someone other, a monster who drags women off the street then it kind of minimises the problem of the ordinary men raping their partners, and if it’s minimised, it carries on longer.

It was said rapists and sex offenders are hated and lose their jobs, Max Clifford’s funeral should be empty then?

Should have read past 7pm posts because I’d have seen the women fancying assertive men makes men become too forceful bullshit and saved my breath.

As long as society paints out rapists to be nasty men lurking in alleyways, as someone other, a monster who drags women off the street then it kind of minimises the problem of the ordinary men raping their partners, and if it’s minimised, it carries on longer.

Breath well spent!

Do ‘ordinary’ men seriously think rapists come with a ‘tell’?

What about family annihilators, where all the neighbours are so shocked because ‘he was such a sweet and gentle man’?

This thread makes depressing reading.

I believe the 'only' 1 in 5 women have been sexually assaulted between 16 - 60 is false and the true total is actually a LOT higher (I use only for sake of conversation, even 1 in 5 is obviously way too high). The main reason I think this is because among my female friends, I know not one person who has not been sexually assaulted, and know a large amount of people who have actually been raped. I am only 30, most of my mates around the ame age, so if we have all been sexually assaulted at this age and still have another 30 years to go to get up to the age the stats go up to...well put bluntly, I do not believe that only I and everyone I know are simply a lot more unlucky than the rest of the population. I would even go as far as to say that its likely the amount of actual rapes per year is a lot higher than 80k.

Of course men don't tend to like this being brought up. The 'official' figures are bad enough and are explained away as something thats not really that bad apparently. So claiming that the true figures are likely higher goes down even worse. This is when 'men are raped by women!' 'women assault other women!' and such tend to get brought up.

The OPs refusal to admit that the UK is clearly a rape culture is not surprising. Nor is his reaction to a female person telling their experience, nor multiple female people telling their own experience. Dare I ay it, the OPs attitude is PART of the rape culture. Minimizing womens lived experience, refusing to admit there is a problem and such.

I still have about 100 or so posts to go through before finishing the thread too. I expect it gets worse, as these things don;t usually get any better.

I asked DH if he felt me saying many rapes are committed by ordinary men is an insult to him. He looked confused, then said no, of course not.

I have just had this conversation with my husband too. He seemed very confused and said that obviously its 'ordinary' men who rape. That they are clearly rapists but they are still your everyday man. They don't come with a warning sign. I asked him why he thinks so many men have a 'NAMALT!' reaction to women discussing their experiences with rape and sexual assault and he said again, no idea. But did say that in a few cases of defensive men, its very likely as they know that their own behavior is problematic so thats why they get so defensive. As they know the men women are talking about are men exactly like them. Not some boogyman that jumps out of a bush in the pitchblack with a gun or something, men exactly like them with their random breast touching, butt slapping, refusing to take no for an answer and grinding women down, type men. He has a good point. I definitely agree with him.

You hear about young girls being raped and sexually abused in other countries, but no, it’s happening in our schools. It’s happening to children here and nothing’s being done.”

Extract from guardian.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/dec/12/are-we-ignoring-an-epidemic-of-sexual-violence-in-schools?CMP=fb_gu

I asked DH if he felt me saying many rapes are committed by ordinary men is an insult to him. He looked confused, then said no, of course not.

I have just had this conversation with my husband too. He seemed very confused and said that obviously its 'ordinary' men who rape. That they are clearly rapists but they are still your everyday man. They don't come with a warning sign. I asked him why he thinks so many men have a 'NAMALT!' reaction to women discussing their experiences with rape and sexual assault and he said again, no idea. But did say that in a few cases of defensive men, its very likely as they know that their own behavior is problematic so that's why they get so defensive. As they know the men women are talking about are men exactly like them. Not some bogeyman that jumps out of a bush in the pitch black with a gun or something, men exactly like them with their random breast touching, butt slapping, refusing to take no for an answer and grinding women down, type men. He has a good point. I definitely agree with him.

100 % agree; particularly with the line But did say that in a few cases of defensive men, its very likely as they know that their own behavior is problematic so that's why they get so defensive

And I've seen it where men who get like this assume that all other men agree with them and are just too whipped/under the thumb to openly agree. They assume that their attitude is the only one and the majority.