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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Father to be refused access to nhs classes

286 replies

Anditstartsagain · 03/12/2017 12:52

I have a friend having her second baby she doesn't want to go to the classes on offer with the nhs but her dp does as this is his first baby. She works in a job in the city centre and getting time off is not easy he is self employed based from home so can easily attend.

Obviously given these circumstances they told the midwife he would attend without her and they were told no. When questioned she said that the classes were mainly for the mum and other mums to be may feel uncomfortable with an unaccompanied man (seriously). If she signs up he can come along.

He is furious I kind if agree that it's not really fair he misses out because she doesn't want to go and couldn't really get there anyway. I personally never bothered with the classes but feel all parents should have the option. What do you all think?

OP posts:
fricative · 04/12/2017 08:20

I wonder if there are different responses for lesbian non-pregnant parents-to-be.

Are there?

Pengggwn · 04/12/2017 08:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Darlingsof · 04/12/2017 08:22

Of course HIBU, this isn’t about him excited though he maybe to be a father.its about preparing to give birth.
I couldn’t go to a class as I was ill and it didn’t occur to my DW to go without me

ShowMeTheElf · 04/12/2017 08:22

She should go if it's important to him.

Darlingsof · 04/12/2017 08:25

Fricative not from me either!

Darlingsof · 04/12/2017 08:26

Us rather as i was the pregnant one...

CecilyP · 04/12/2017 08:29

^I wonder if there are different responses for lesbian non-pregnant parents-to-be.

Are there?^

No!

raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 04/12/2017 08:29

I think it's the idea of suspicion that upset my friends partner... it was the tone of well it's a woman thing and saying without a woman he would make people feel uncomfortable that upset him

FFS the entitlement in this makes me really angry.

I am upset that predatory men exist. I am upset that I have to modify my behaviour because of the threat of predatory men all the time.

I am upset I can't go where I like at night without having to take steps to ensure my safety.

I am upset that I have been catcalled, groped, intimidated and raped by predatory men and that this has made me wary of men I don't know well.

I am upset that I was beaten and abused by a violent man who I trusted to bring into my life that I have had to make significant changes to my life as a result.

Yes it would be nice if your friend could go. But do you know what, your friend is experiencing, for once in his life not being able to do what he wants because of the actions of selfish entitled predatory men. Women experience that every fucking day.

But - instead of being angry with the areshole and predatory me for fucking it up for the rest of us, he's behaving a little bit like them in fact as he's putting his own feelings above the feelings and safety of women.

Please point out to him that

-the people he should be angry with are the men who make women feel we have to protect ourselves

-he is getting a tiny glimpse of what it is like to be a woman

-he should be aware he's putting his sense of entitlement above the comfort and safety of the women at the event. He may not mean any harm but other men do

-if he can't understand this and still puts his own feelings first then he's actually not as nice as he makes out to be

raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 04/12/2017 08:34

This is what it boils down to:

Man is angry with woman because women feel wary of men they don't know.

Or

Man is angry with the men who have made women feel wary of men they don't know.

Can you see how the first one is illogical, entitled and actually part of the problem?

rabbitsdontlayeggs · 04/12/2017 08:38

We did NCT and my DH came along with me, I don't think they'd have let him go on his own. It would have really altered he dynamic of the group.

We did also buy The Expectant Dad's handbook by Dean Beaumont which was actually brilliant for a first time Dad to be. Lots of useful information, how they can support the Mum and covers lots of during and after birth stuff. I'd recommend that to him.

To be honest though, nothing actually prepared us for the birth we got, which was about as far removed from the lovely floaty NCT pedalled experience as you can get! So whether he can attend a class or not he should be aware that things don't go to plan always anyway and that he basically just needs to do whatever Mum wants or needs him to do at any given moment Grin

fromtheshires · 04/12/2017 08:46

singing / cherrychasing I'm sure you can get how to give birth from a book, YouTube even the internet, however as an expectant mother you get to go.

Yes, going as a lone male is a little bit strange, but some of the comments on here are just silly. Isn't it a good thing someone wants to learn how to look after their baby from a professional instead of the internet said this....

fromtheshires · 04/12/2017 08:48

Yet again, still getting used to this site and see there are 11 more pages after page one. Ignore my above comment everyone, will go and have a read of all pages before making another more up to date comment

fricative · 04/12/2017 08:59

@CecilyP

Your thoughtful and elaborate reply entirely missed the OP's explanation.

"other mums to be may feel uncomfortable with an unaccompanied man"

It's sadly all about sex and a "men r bad m'kay" notion.

corythatwas · 04/12/2017 09:07

I'd say the crucial thing here is what the woman wants. If she feels- as I did- that it would be helpful to her if he could be there and get information that would enable him to help her on the day, then I think that point should be part of the consideration. I was struck- even 20 years ago- by how important my birth partner became because the midwives were attending to several births and rushing in and out and I was not in a state to run after them and try to communicate.

However, if she feels confident as it is, especially as she is already experienced, then it's a bit worrying that he doesn't feel able to take that knowledge from her. What one would not like, and what could potentially be very harmful, is a situation where the dh tries to override the woman who is actually giving birth because he's done A Course.

What do you reckon, OP? Is the communication between these two people all it should be?

Darlingsof · 04/12/2017 09:21

Cory - what the woman wants apparently is not to go to the classes! If she feels she needs the info then she would/could go not get it 2nd hand off her DP. And if he’s so upset that he’s angry about it then perhaps she should be taking that into consideration and making the effort for him...
it does sound like he’s being a bit childish...

corythatwas · 04/12/2017 10:13

That was my second scenario, Darlings, and the one I rather favour in this particular case. Which is why I put it last and followed it up with a question about their communication.

Basically, in this case I don't think he should go. He should learn to talk to his partner because that, after all, is what he is there for at the birth.

But I don't think we should necessarily adopt a blanket scenario of "no man should ever go".

Original poster
Anditstartsagain · 04/12/2017 11:22

corythatwas she wants him to go thinks it will calm him down. I can understand why he's freaked out she had her first in about 5 hours with 3 pushes and was walking around within 5 mins she also breastfed without one single issue for 16 months and her dd slept all night from 4 weeks she doesn't think she needs to be worrying about pain relief or what could go wrong since it was so good last time.

Her dp feels that if something does go wrong he has no idea what to do or the options and sadly as much as he will do what she wants she may not be capable of deciding if something goes badly wrong.

OP posts:
Sashkin · 04/12/2017 11:34

If she’s not capable of deciding, it’s a medical decision taken in her best interests. Not his. He is an onlooker, not a decision-maker.

It’s a common misconception because in the US next of kins do have the right to make medical decisions on your behalf if you lose capacity, and we get so much US media that people assume it’s the same over here. It’s not. Patient decides, or doctors decide if patient isn’t able to.

Next of kins often have trouble with this concept. It sounds like he is going to have trouble with it too. He needs to get used to the idea. His partner is the patient, he will not be making any decisions about the birth.

saladdays66 · 04/12/2017 11:37

I personally don't feel they will be useful for him but I think as a nervous first time parent asking for a hand hold and some info he should be allowed to have it.

Then he could buy a book on the subject, or look for a dads-to-be class, or book NCT classes. He has lots of options, and his 'rights' should not supersede women's rights.

Original poster
Anditstartsagain · 04/12/2017 11:57

Sashkin I wasn't capible of making decisions when having ds2 at one point I was crying hysterically in trauma with medical staff saying I had to decide myself DP knowing what each thing ment was the only thing that helped. He was totally in control asked the staff to leave the room while he helped me calm down talked with me about what I had wanted and why I wanted so I could agree to what they wanted.

OP posts:
Raaaaaah · 04/12/2017 12:10

Pen you have missed my point. I am not talking about the father’s rights I am talking about the expectation that they are effective rather than passive birth partners. If the NHS is as stretched as it is and the midwives no longer have the option of being effective birth partners then I for one want my partner to be fully informed and able to advocate for me. I am talking about my right as a woman to be well supported in labour. BTW this is no criticism of the NHS or midwives rather the lack of funding.

Raaaaaah · 04/12/2017 12:16

Sash when medical professionals were making decisions for me third time round they were based on protocols. Only my DP knew my history and the impact that previous decision by medical professionals had had on my life. He stood my ground when I was feeling at my most vulnerable. I think that it is not just desirable that men are informed but essential.

CecilyP · 04/12/2017 13:02

Your thoughtful and elaborate reply entirely missed the OP's explanation.
I didn't feel any need to elaborate; not from my point of view anyway. The classed are for the person giving birth, the NHS patient if you like. So for a non-pregnant female partner my view would be the same. Obviously the healthcare professional would have not been able to give the same reason. I guess, if she turned up, she would more likely blend in, with other mums wondering why her bump is so small, but the classes are still not for her on her own!

Aeroflotgirl · 04/12/2017 13:05

If he feel so strongly about it, why doesen't he go to a fathers group, contact the NCT or google to see if there is one about. That NHS one is for the patient, to prepare her for birth, not the man, it would be highly inappropriate if he went on his own.

hackmum · 04/12/2017 13:21

CecilyP: "The classes are for the person giving birth".

Yes, exactly. The whole point of these classes is to prepare pregnant women for birth and (to a lesser extent) looking after a new baby. It's good to be accompanied by the person who's going to be with you while you give birth, whether that's your husband, partner, wife, friend, mother or doula. But the idea that they could go to the class without, as it were, the star of the show, seems ludicrous. It would just be awkward and pointless. My memory of NCT class is that you did loads of stuff in pairs.

It just amazes me that this guy is so entitled and self-centred that he feels "furious" about it. God knows what he's going to be like when the baby arrives and he discovers the planet no longer revolves around him.