Father to be refused access to nhs classes

[Anditstartsagain]

I have a friend having her second baby she doesn't want to go to the classes on offer with the nhs but her dp does as this is his first baby. She works in a job in the city centre and getting time off is not easy he is self employed based from home so can easily attend.

Obviously given these circumstances they told the midwife he would attend without her and they were told no. When questioned she said that the classes were mainly for the mum and other mums to be may feel uncomfortable with an unaccompanied man (seriously). If she signs up he can come along.

He is furious I kind if agree that it's not really fair he misses out because she doesn't want to go and couldn't really get there anyway. I personally never bothered with the classes but feel all parents should have the option. What do you all think?

"Of course he could be taking the place of a woman, a woman who wants to attend without a partner."

If a cancellation from a woman frees up another space for someone else to be invited, then yes, that is different. We all know the nhs is nowhere near that organised though. The letters go out, if people are lucky they arrive before the actual class and it goes ahead regardless if 1 or 10 people show, with or without partners.

"But, Kid, before a baby is actually born, a man isn't 'a father"

In the vast majority of normal cases a man is as much a father to be as the woman is a mother to be, and frankly I think they have as much right to access advice about the whole process as women. The question was not whether the woman wanted her partner there, it was that she couldn't go but the partner still wanted to. Honestly I don't see the issue when the classes are not solely about the birth. A parent asking about, say SIDS has just as much right to access that information regardless of which particular role they will play in parenthood.

Although, as others have said, they should just point out to the bloke that they are a complete waste of time, which is a problem in itself of course.

"This man's partner is not attending the class and his presence is of no use to the women who are."

Yes, but it might be of use to his partner in absence or to their child, which I would hope is the key thing. It makes no sense in my head to deny potentially useful information to a couple purely because one of them can't attend.

It makes no sense in my head to deny potentially useful information to a couple purely because one of them can't attend.

Won't attend.

Tbh the NHS is pretty shit at dealing with dads all round. The ante-natal classes were okay but you weren't really encouraged to participate as a 'birth partner'. After the birth of ds (first) he was in neonatal for a week and it took a few days before I was allowed to see him without my wife (Who was on the ward with restricted visiting hours). All I wanted to do was spend some time with him and let my wife get so rest after a tough birth. However this is just part of how our society currently responds to men doing childcare either with patronisation (praising us for doing something that mum's would just be expected to do like changing nappies) or suspicion.

Is childbirth really an embarrassing, dysfunctional condition in the same way that ED is? If that's genuinely a good analogy, then I think it's a pretty fucking sorry state of affairs in itself.

Daddystepdaddy I think it's the idea of suspicion that upset my friends partner if they had said i'm sorry the space can only be filled by the person giving birth or there is a waiting list he would have been gutted but fine wh it, it was the tone of well it's a woman thing and saying without a woman he would make people feel uncomfortable that upset him.

My first labour dp never found out much and it was awful he had no idea what to do I was trying to make decisions I was not capable if making the whole thing was traumatic second time round he got all his facts asked questions and when the same thing went wrong knew exactly what to do/ask it was technically a worse labour but so much easiet because he was there advocating for me confidently.

I'm going to put my hand up here and confess that when I was expecting dd I did actually send dh along to the NHS ante-natal class on his own because halfway through the course I was already in hospital with complications. I didn't know it was this wrong, and I didn't want us to miss out on info.

Besides, like some other posters' experience, our course was not just about labour but also about things like premature birth and SIDS and other things that were going to be of just as important to him as to me.

It must be terrible for him that women are frequently made uncomfortable by men.

I assume his 'fury' is directed at the men who make women uncomfortable, rather than the women who have been made to feel uncomfortable...

I'm a midwife in case my username didn't give it away.

Honestly he would end up feeling awkward being there alone. It's all about options in labour, pain relief, a bit of practicing birth positions, massage for the mother, ways of relaxing etc. All info that is useless to him if she doesn't want to go as its targeted at her.

The newborn stuff is more about immediate newborn care, skin to skin, breastfeeding, vitamin k, delayed cord clamping etc. This may be helpful to him but it's her decision and as she has a child already she probably already knows what she wants to do so targeting him with the information makes no difference.

They are birth preparation classes not parenthood preparation classes.

He can buy a book or read a website and get the same information though,
So could all the couples who go, butbits seen as useful for them to have a class (my midwife got quite cross when I didn't want to do them for my 2nd pregnancy, because it was a 40 minute drive on icey roads...).
Surprised so many people say they're only really about giving birth - the ones I did were a lot about the blokes role too in supporting, what happens in labour, and how to care for a new baby. I know one dad who didn't go to classes and was then very anxious during the birth because he thought things were going badly wrong when his partner threw up. I think the classes are equally valuable for the dads

No we found it helpful ...he knew what to expect, he knew how to help me while I was in labour, he knew what to tell the hospital about my waters etc, he knew what we needed as a final check on the paperwork to take the hospital as I was otherwise distracted at the time. And it made him feel more confident about the birth of his child.

They are birth preparation classes not parenthood preparation classes.

Actually, I think half the problem with this debate is that different classes in different areas seem to be... different.

This scenario with a labouring woman who is in constant contact with a midwife and can communicate directly with her at any time seems rather rosy even for my experience 20 years ago, let alone for current under-staffed times. Even when I gave birth, the reality was that for a lot of the time I was alone in a delivery room and dh was the one that had to run out and find a midwife if we thought things were happening or if I was wondering about something. Even when the fire alarm went, there was nobody there to take me out to a safe place.

i theory all he needs to do is identify as a pregnant woman and he can go too, from what ive seen on the message boards for the last few weeks!

There was a man on his own at one of my classes. It really wasn't odd, obviously I can't speak for everyone there but he in no way made it uncomfortable, he was taking notes for his dp. I think they'd been to one class together but then she couldn't make this one so he came along alone and took notes for her. It was a while ago but from what I remember he participated and asked questions and certainly the midwife was very welcoming to him.

By chance his dp and I gave birth on the same day and we ended up in a twin room together so I got to see him again after with her and he was lovely and caring and not controlling or anything else that has been suggested on this thread.

Pregnancy, labour and childbirth are "woman things". His pregnant partner isn't going to attend, the pregnant women and the HCPs taking the class favour no unaccompanied men so he should accept that.

Instead of making it all about his feelings of "upset" and paranoia. It is not the job of midwives and pregnant women to make him feel better.

There is nothing will get from it that he can't get from his own research.

He would get more from talking to his girlfriend about what support she wants, what she needs him to do.

Unless of course he has to make this all about him....

Daddystepdaddy Our experience with the NHS wasn't so bad with regards to how they dealt with me as a dad. After a traumatic premature birth which I supported DP through, DS was in NICU (for 3 weeks) and they didn't restrict me going in on my own at all. As DP wasn't initially well enough to get out of her bed in a ward on another floor of the hospital I was solely responsible for a lot of the early care for DS which I admit I was unprepared for. No ideal if the classes would have helped me as we only just managed to attend 1 out of 3.

Maybe I should have read a book, or even just stayed at home handing out cigars because childbirth is a "woman thing".

I’m actually a bit surprised by most of the responses especially the ones from midwives. I’ve had three kids in hospital and all three have required DP to know what was going on and for him to advocate for me. They are busy places where midwives are often spread too thin and a supportive unfazed DP is of real benefit. It seems really odd to me that so many people feel that it is not of benefit for a male to learn about pregnancy or childbirth. As for the argument that he could learn it all from a book...why bother with antenatal classes at all.

At our antenatal classes the men were asked to leave for the breastfeeding part as it might feel a bit awkward for them and us and I always found that really puzzling. It would have been really helpful for partners to understand how to support us or where to seek support if we were struggling.

Oh and pengggwn whilst childbirth is obviously physiologically a ‘woman thing’ there is a much greater expectation and need for men to take a supportive role. If they are to be expected to witness often really traumatic scenes are they not entitled to some preparation for this?

If a woman was on here moaning their DP did not want to get involved and be supportive through her pregnancy, there would be uproar, in some women's eyes the fella just can't win. If he wants to be educated and get involved ready for the labour..that is not his "right" and if he shows no interest he would be unsupportive and selfish lol.
I'm glad most men ( men I know anyway) do want to get involved and their partners think of them as equal in the relationship regarding the baby and have been allowed to all classes pre birth, but as mentioned before it is obviously different classes in different areas and people have completely different views.