To think gender alters the perception of what is said on MN?

[1DAD2KIDS]

I use a username that clearly identifies my gender (and is also my biological sex). Often I feel that if people assumed I was a woman their response would be different. Or if you swapped the genders around some people's responses would be completely different?

Sorry, internet blip.

Pumperthepumper I have said this or (words to that affect) lots of times in some be debates a male perspective may be of value even if not specifically asked for. Often for example relationships conversations it may be hard for females to put them self in male shoes. Yet the understanding of male side is of significance to the problem. Therefor input of a more male perspective is of value sometimes in some bates.

I can’t think of a different way to say this - YOU are the one who thinks this. You have chosen to come onto a female dominated site with your male perspective. If you honestly can’t see why that would be unwelcome (in some cases) after 8 pages then I have to ask you again - what are you hoping for from this thread?

People wouldn’t know or care if you were being disingenuous with a neutral username - unless you still felt the need to barge into conversations with ‘man here’ or say, commented on a thread full of women’s abuse stories with a ‘male angle’.

So what enrichment please? What are we missing now that scores of new male posters could bring?

I am almost rendered speechless, 1DAD. You wonder why you see, perceive and experience a bias against you as a male on this site when you come out with gems such as this:

It would be wonderful to have lots more male voices on here. I thing MN would be more enriched.

However there are a few things that are more common to male than female experience (probably due to socialisation, evolution , privilege etc). So there may well be value in some conversations to a voice that may have a more male perspective. After all understanding is part of solving the problem. And of course as pointed out before if we had more male voices you would have an even wider sample to enrich the conversation.

The arrogance just pours out of those statements.

So there we have it - MN needs more male voices because the predominantly female conversation isn't enriching enough and only a male voice could improve it.

You also say 1DAD:

Its fair to say my style is a bit wordy. Maybe some find it a bit patronizing?

No shit Sherlock.

Lweji Completely as I said may times there maybe some conversations where this voice is of value. You yourself have given example of some area that MAY have some benefit, very much depending on the individual conversation. I don't think there is a definitive list anywhere that specifies all conversations where a male perpective can and can not add insight?

Do we need a man to come and tell us why it's so much more difficult for a man to understand how the washing machine works than it is to drive a car? Really? That is a very crude and facetious question aimed at pandering to a very crude narrative. Of course you don't need a man to help you understand these things and I would be very concerned as a grown adult you would need a man because his advise would be just as valuable as any woman. Male perspective on the operation of a washing machine is no doubt the same as any other person. Although a good example of when as in many conversations the sex of a poster holds no significance to the conversation.

I agree there is no one male or female perspective as I have already pointed out numerous times. But sex does have an impact on our perception. Therefore I would argue that to get a more enriched debate we could do with more numbers of men to the conversation in conversations where sex based insight is of help.

I can’t find the thread, but there was one fairly recently on mn where the consensus seemed to be that most posters would be happy to not have the input of men on mumsnet. I doubt that has changed.

Note you didn’t say ‘more generic voices’ or ‘more people of colour’ or ‘more divorcees’ or ‘more single parents’ - but more men. Why specifically men?

Pumperthepumper note I have advocated diversity of voice throughout. I have talked about the value in some other conversations in regards to things like race, gender identification, sexuality class etc? Or have you just conveniently missed that?

Pumperthepumper note I have advocated diversity of voice throughout. I have talked about the value in some other conversations in regards to things like race, gender identification, sexuality class etc? Or have you just conveniently missed that?

Nope, that’s why I asked you the question. You agree that other voices have a value - yet you think more MALE voices would enrich mumsnet. Why is that?

Would also love an answer to the enrichment question I posted above - what enrichment?

Are you the guy who suggested that we should have a separate place on MN for women?

The last thing MN needs is more male posters. It's one of very few places on the internet that is female dominated and it's a refuge frankly. You probably won't understand that.

IMO greater diversity in a conversation is a great thing.

so if say it was a conversation on race and I was of a racial minority being discussed clearly I don’t represent all people of my race. But surely being of that race I may have a different insight (that may be more common to my race) to maybe the majority of people posting who race is not mine?

In the same way that say class, race or gender identification may have significance to some other conversations. that was an earlier reply to you.

You are really nit picking now with very cheap shots of little relevce. The whole point is about diversity of conversation. Other have dragged us down away from the main question to concentrate on the addition and representation of male voices in conversation. But clearly as demonstrated I am pro enrichment though wider diversity and see that male voices are only part of the picture.

Do you not believe that diversity of voice enriches a conversation?

Are you the guy who suggested that we should have a separate place on MN for women?

Yeah, I recall that. Was that you, OP?

We have the whole wide world in which to get the input of men. MN is a nice place to go when you don't necessarily want that input.

There is diversity, more so than on the wider internet because there are many more women than men. Don't you understand that the male voice usually dominates discourse, and it's more diverse when there are more women?

You have said those things - then went on to say ‘more male voices would enrich mumsnet’ (sorry if that wasn’t the exact wording, I can’t c&p twice on a post). So why not more voices in general - this is the third time I’ve asked - why more male voices? Convince me! You also haven’t acknowledged that it’s you that thinks it’s important to point out you’re male, not anyone else.

You are really nit picking now with very cheap shots of little relevce. The whole point is about diversity of conversation

I thought the whole point was sex-bias?

Head bangs desk

Lweji Completely as I said may times there maybe some conversations where this voice is of value. You yourself have given example of some area that MAY have some benefit, very much depending on the individual conversation. I don't think there is a definitive list anywhere that specifies all conversations where a male perpective can and can not add insight?

You are not giving a male perspective. Even 100 men don't give a male perspective. They give their own perspective. Unless you can demonstrate that there is ONE male perspective.
I didn't give examples of any cases where a male voice might be needed. I wanted you to explain to me how a "male voice" might give an insight that many other voices (including non overtly male) had given before.
Still waiting.

Do we need a man to come and tell us why it's so much more difficult for a man to understand how the washing machine works than it is to drive a car?
Really? That is a very crude and facetious question aimed at pandering to a very crude narrative. Of course you don't need a man to help you understand these things and I would be very concerned as a grown adult you would need a man because his advise would be just as valuable as any woman.

If the point was a swimming pool and you were a diver, you'd be dead.

What I was asking was if we, women, need a man to explain to women why men are supposedly crap at using a washing machine, but they seem to be so good at using cars. This follows from the many threads with women complaining about their partners not washing their clothes, or ruining washes.

(if you have trouble reading, perhaps use a programme to read it out loud to you)

Not any and every conversation, no.

If I want to talk to about motherhood, I'll talk to mothers of whatever background, race, religion, nationality, etc.

If I want to ask about fatherhood, I'll talk to fathers of whatever background, race, religion, nationality, etc.

If I want to discuss parenthood, I'll talk to parents of whatever sex, background, race, religion, nationality, etc.

Diversity of conversation doesn't automatically require a male voice or perspective and in a number of conversations does the exact opposite of enriching the dialogue.

Or was the lady-ghetto idea the brainchild of NewDaddie? He was well rude. Where did he go?

Lineys He was wasn't he.

It was NewDaddie. He was also the poster who decided his male perspective was really important at a women-only breastfeeding group and said anyone who didn’t like it could leave.

Dear god, are you still boring on and on and on?

Here's a tip: if you go into a pub and don't like it, you find another one that suits you better. You don't harangue the owner and patrons into changing it to suit you.

Yet another male invading a predominantly women's space and trying to take it over.

There are many, many other forums out there. I'm sure you could find one that suits you better. You just don't want to. You'd rather post here.

Why is that, I wonder?

No, I don't wonder, actually. You're don't fool me with your faux-naif attention-seeking diatribes.

You don't fool me...

Pumperthepumper you know exactly what your trying to do. Your trying to get this guy he has no consideration for other groups in some kind of lazy argument. I have demonstrated I see other factor of significance in some debates such as sexuality, race etc. I have advocated in diversity is good. But the conversation is about we are having is about male voices and their relevance or irelivance are we not?

LineysRunner I don't think so. But I have had a few conversations on here over the years. I think the idea is problematic. But I can understand some people's advocation for such a forum if they were to feel totally uncomfortable with a male presence. I don't hold a position on that per se at the moment, it's a difficult debate and not this debate.

AssassinatedBeauty not many sexually diverse parenting sites.

Lweji do you believe men and women are not treated differently? Do you believe people are not sometimes treated different based on race. Will all society completely treat a white atheist the same as a muslim woman wearing full vail? Is levels of privalidge not a thing? As I have said so so many times of course everyone has a different perspective. But do you really think that on the whole males and females have different experiance. Thus a male perspective may have a different perspective that is influenced by his sex and cultural norms?
But women do need a man, if they need help they need someone who knows who what there talking about.

RedDogsBeg Not any and every conversation, no. 100% agree. In most conversations I don't think the sex is relevant. But there are some. Like race, gender identification, class, career, hobbies, whether your a parent or not can enrich some other conversations but have no relevance to others. It's all dependant on the conversation.

You're getting what you want from this thread which is lots of time and attention from women. I realise now it's probably better to ignore your self indulgent and ill thought out posts.