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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think gender alters the perception of what is said on MN?

507 replies

1DAD2KIDS · 26/11/2017 11:00

I use a username that clearly identifies my gender (and is also my biological sex). Often I feel that if people assumed I was a woman their response would be different. Or if you swapped the genders around some people's responses would be completely different?

OP posts:
Sensimilla · 28/11/2017 09:01

All I would say is gender is a real thing to the mental wellbeing and existantce of many people. There is something a bit worrying about dismissing a whole aspect of someone core belief and very selfimage like that IMO

It's bit 'worrying' at all. There are very many atheists in the world.We don't have to concern ourselves with people's 'self image' for goodness sake. How tedious would that be

Pumperthepumper · 28/11/2017 09:08

PLEASE try telling me! I’m desperate to know where this male perspective is so important! We’re not going in circles, I’m asking a question and you’re not answering it! Where is your male perspective so important if you haven’t been explicitly asked for it?

Sparklingbrook · 28/11/2017 09:15

Eolian I agree completely.

I don't think many women join MN in order to debate stuff with men and get a male perspective. There must be loads of other websites if that's what you want.

corythatwas · 28/11/2017 09:16

1DAD2KIDS Tue 28-Nov-17 00:28:35
"corythatwas yet again read the thread if you wish. I have answered that question too."

I have read the thread and I find your answers rather contradictory. If sex/gender doesn't matter for posting and there is no one male perspective, why do you feel the need to specifically point out that yours is the male perspective? And why would you imagine it is a useful counterbalance, if we are all here posting as individuals anyway? And seeing that we have plenty of male posters who are happy to provide another male perspective without advertising the fact. Presumably because they are content to be one in the crowd rather than "look here is the other side of the coin".

I have read several of your posts and felt they were mansplaining before I even noticed the poster name, so unless you change the style significantly, I doubt changing your poster name would make much difference. What comes across from your posts, and has done since you started posting, is a strong sense that " am Used to being Listened To, I am not just one among several thousand, I am
Something Different."

Women get that all the time in RL, pretty well every time there is a man in the room. The special feature about MN is that every female voice counts as much as every male voice. Unusual but invigorating. But it only works if male posters don't claim privilege.

Sensimilla · 28/11/2017 09:17

I don't think many women join MN in order to debate stuff with men and get a male perspective

And yet here we all are, huh

Lweji · 28/11/2017 09:22

Hmmm, OP, I'm not sure you got my points.

Your OP was about getting certain types of answers because you're obviously a man.
I imagine some pps may be guilty of this, but I wouldn't say MN.
And the types of answers depend a lot on how you pose the question.
Men and women get bad and good overall responses based on their posts, not their sex.
If a woman posts that her husband isn't giving her enough sex and her need for sex isn't being fulfilled she'll be told she's not entitled to it.

Sparklingbrook · 28/11/2017 09:26

Yes good point Sensimilla, this is giving the OP exactly what he wants I guess.

Lweji · 28/11/2017 09:38

We're not really getting the male perspective, though just the OP's perspective.
We'd need a large sample size to determine the average male opinion and standard deviations.

Pumperthepumper · 28/11/2017 09:38

*am Used to being Listened To, I am not just one among several thousand, I am
Something Different."

Women get that all the time in RL, pretty well every time there is a man in the room. The special feature about MN is that every female voice counts as much as every male voice. Unusual but invigorating. But it only works if male posters don't claim privilege.*

Beautifully put Cory, exactly this!

makeourfuture · 28/11/2017 10:01

Doesn't someone own this site?

They make the rules.

BertieBotts · 28/11/2017 10:11

I think a couple of things feed into this. The average MNer is pretty clued up about gendered socialisation and how it tends to cause people to behave in different ways and perceive issues, particularly relationship and parenting based, differently. Therefore it's completely appropriate to near this in mind and allow it to influence a reply or advice given.

Secondly threads where double standards are often claimed are very different depending on which side of the issue the OP is on. There is no point giving a poster advice about what their partner (or ex) should do, because the poster has no control over another person's behaviour! Respondents can only advise on how to best deal with the behaviour they are experiencing.

corythatwas · 28/11/2017 10:32

Very good points made by Bertie, especially the last one. Of course the reply is going to be different according to who we are actually speaking to.

StatelessPrincess · 28/11/2017 11:32

there are some conversations where a male voice may not be appropriate I'm glad you're now aware of this. So do you think now that what you posted (on the thread I referred to) was appropriate? Also, I am interested to know where (excluding requests for one) you think a man's perspective is valuable to women?

GetMeOutOfHerePlease · 28/11/2017 14:42

Your argument is like saying if I'm a Rangers fan and I walk into a Celtic pub it's perfectly natural I get beaten, that's fine, couldn't expect any other and thus right.

That wasn’t my argument at all. It’s not natural, ok or right if you get beaten up. If you went to a Celtic supporters pub and joined into conversation about Celtic strategies, issues etc and announced you are a ranger then you should expect there to be a bias against you.

For me it's not the polarisation of the sex that's the issue, it's the bias it's self. But that just maybe a point we disagree on.

I agree there is a bias, you don’t want the bias to exist? Perhaps the bias would lessen if men started challenging other men when they see them display the behaviour in society that possibly results in women being biased rather than complain to the women about being biased?

Dh has told some ex mate she to pack it in when theyve made unwanted sexual comments towards women, he’s said he knows some of the other in his old friendship circle didn’t like the sexual comments and could see the women felt uncomfortable but kept their gob shut, the woman it looks like they one making the comments, and the mates with him are all like that. Men as a class seem very quick to point out to women that not all men are like that, when women are discussing sexual harassment, but seem reluctant to show it by challenging shitty behaviour of men they know. Again, I’m typing as I speak so apologies if I sound hostile, I don’t intent to.

Sorry to hear about your girl. Rugby is a great game that I enjoyed playing my self. Although I did once get totally bombarded on here just for exploring the idea of mixed sex teams (buts that's a different story)

Dd isn’t against mixed teams at all, she just wants to play and I dare bet she’d be brilliant at it, she’s built for it and can tackle her built like a brick shit house Dad haha, she’d been looking for a way to play for fun for well over a year and was laughed at at times for wanting to join the boys team, Was told she’d be shit. . The boys didn’t seem to want mixed teams or they’d have welcomed her, they only wanted mixed teams when she tried to create a group that excluded them..

Even more frustratingly the school back up the sexism, this years y8 PE curriculum has rugby for the boys, and dance for the girls. Parkour for the boys, gymnastics for the girls. No switching halfway through so dd gets zero access to rugby at school, the boys get to play regular as part of PE plus get to play as part of the club and it’s still nit enough, they have two possible places and girls have none. But if girls places are created they want half of those too. I wonder if it’s that type of stuff that creates the bias you see on female populated sites.

I guess I’m saying to remove the bias, you need to remove the cause of it.

GetMeOutOfHerePlease · 28/11/2017 14:52

And also, the female perspective of things is what I use mumsnet for. I’ve been here for over ten years now and it’s been very valuable to me. To learn I’m not alone in some of the things that have happened to me, to know it’s not my fault and to know I don’t have to be nice and polite and that being seen as rude by men isn’t going to make the world end, it really has empowered me.

Am not saying I dont want to hear male voices, there’s loads of men who use MN and are awesome posters etc and only mention being male when a male perspective is specifically asked for, they just post like most people on forums do rest of the time.

1DAD2KIDS · 29/11/2017 12:30

Sensimilla We don't have to concern ourselves with people's 'self image' for goodness sake. I disagree to a point. I am an atheist but many people I know have what for them is very real a relationship with god. It is fundamental to them emotionally. Agreed I disagree with them and happy counter their belief (in a sensitive way in the right environment) but I do care about their sensibilities too. I wouldn't stand outside a Synagogue shouting to the people inside that their religion is fake and nonsense. I think we do have to have some sensibility when it comes to peoples core values and beliefs. I would just want to dismiss people and their experience like that, same goes with not dismissing peoples gender identity. But anyway that's only my opinion and besides the point of this conversation.

Pumperthepumper go on then, just for you Tue 28-Nov-17 00:01:13 (again)

Well just the amount of conversations asking for a male perspective indicates that some people in some conversations value it. As you may remember I say some conversations its of significance. In the same way that say class, race or gender identification may have significance to some other conversations. For many conversations these factors may have no significance. It don’t take much to work out there maybe value to a male angle in many categories such as AIBU in conversations where sex is a factor, Relationships, Divorce/separation, Parenting for example. The world is still so divided on grounds of sex. But to be fair your question is a bit of distraction from the question of sexual bias. Its more about the presence of bias and hierocracy in relation to sex than a question of when and when not a male perspective is of significance. You are making a very big thing of it but all I was simply adding to the conversation was the there is sometime significance to male voices in some conversations. That’ll all.
Also totally agree than a woman’s voice is as much value as a mans, who wouldn’t? So this exactly both voices complement each other in terms of a more enriched picture. IMO greater diversity in a conversation is a great thing. So it seems adverse to people would not see the benefit of adding more diversity.

Sparklingbrook It is perfectly fine to accept or not accept any ones perspective. As I am also free as an individual to add my perspective to conversation.

Corythatwas so if say it was a conversation on race and I was of a racial minority being discussed clearly I don’t represent all people of my race. But surely being of that race I may have a different insight (that may be more common to my race) to maybe the majority of people posting who race is not mine?
All so you mansplaining argument is indicative of the question. Its fair to say my style is a bit wordy. Maybe some find it a bit patronizing? This is not my intent and style is the same when address men as it is to women. If you did not know I was a man you could not accuse me of mansplianing? The very concept of your accusation comes from knowledge of my sex. The term has become very over used as a sexist slur and misunderstood these days.
I am just an individual like you, like everyone else. We all have some value to a conversation especially in different areas. Maybe we have good insight into a conversation based on race, class, upbringing, career, education, hobbies etc. In a many ways we are all very different and have a right to a voice.

Lweji I agree with you there. As before there are differing opinions out there, different sides of the argument. A lot of posters out there are not hypocritical or sexist. In lots conversations I see people argued against (that’s the point of debate) but sometimes some very malicious activity too. Maybe there is quarter to say some people would use anything, not just sex identity. Having said that I think sex is a far softer target to hit than say race for that sort of person.
Likewise I agree with you on a wider sample. I can speak as a man and by experiences that have been affected by sex but not for all men. It would be wonderful to have lots more male voices on here. I thing MN would be more enriched.

BertieBotts I agree with you this sexual bias is present on MN the say as sex related double standers exist in RL. Consequently if we identify double standards I think it adds value to the argument for more diversity in NM conversations.
On your second point I agree we can be very polarised by sides and this may bias our responses. I also agree that there is no point giving advice to a man who is not is not privy to the conversation, that would be bonkers. However there are a few things that are more common to male than female experience (probably due to socialisation, evolution , privilege etc). So there may well be value in some conversations to a voice that may have a more male perspective. After all understanding is part of solving the problem. And of course as pointed out before if we had more male voices you would have an even wider sample to enrich the conversation.

StatelessPrincess Yes thank you. The way my perceptions have been challenged on MN conversations have added real value and changed the way I see thing. I think that on the whole is part of the value of wide and diverse debate. As to you second part I refer you to the answer near top of page to Pumper.

GetMeOutOfHerePlease Bias is everywhere.
I agree there is a bias, you don’t want the bias to exist? Perhaps the bias would lessen if men started challenging other men when they see them display the behavior in society that possibly results in women being biased rather than complain to the women about being biased? completely agree with challenging other men but surely that doesn’t make reverse sexual bias ok?
I wasn’t suggesting you DD was against mixed teams such as Rugby. Just making a side point that a while back I asked the question of mixed sports team. It did not go down well. Responses like are you being obtuse? It was clearly pointed out to me that men are far stronger than women and to do so would relegate women in the top areas of the female sport to lower positions of the mixed sport. It was made clear to me that to even the idea of mixed sports such as Rugby was misogynistic because it would allow men to totally dominate the sport due to their biological advantages. I don’t think from my recollection anyone in the conversation was in favor of mixed sports team. Although I do know that sports such as roller derby are ok with mixed teams in terms of sex and gender identify.
I’m glad MN has been useful to you. It is a great site and has been very good to me. Not just to opening up new perspectives and ideas to me but also helping me understand myself, getting me though some tough emotional times and lots of practical parenting advise too. You have made me think about my screen name. My perspective will always be male as I am a male. It will always be a British white male because that is my ethnicity. These things I can be no other because they are fixed factors in who I am and these factors have significance in experience. So I will come from that perspective. Although the whole value of a male voice is a total distraction. A few pages ago I simple said that I agreed with another poster in some conversation that in some conversations a male voice added value (like ones asking for male perspective). It was just a little comment but has become the bread and butter of the conversation rather than original question.

OP posts:
Sparklingbrook · 29/11/2017 12:52

Thank you for giving me permission OP. I will stick to RL male perspectives. Smile

1DAD2KIDS · 29/11/2017 13:03

Sparklingbrook not granting you permission. Just a general statement. It maybe absence of tone, facial expression and/or body language that caused your misconception of my written words.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 29/11/2017 13:03

It don’t take much to work out there maybe value to a male angle in many categories such as AIBU in conversations where sex is a factor, Relationships, Divorce/separation, Parenting for example

Why though? My point is - if you haven’t been asked for it explicitly then it’s YOU who is deciding that the ‘male angle’ is important.

So it seems a bit disingenuous to then complain that people are picking on you just because you’re a man. You are the one choosing to highlight that fact, because YOU think a male perspective is necessary.

1DAD2KIDS · 29/11/2017 13:09

Pumperthepumper I have said this or (words to that affect) lots of times in some be debates a male perspective may be of value even if not specifically asked for. Often for example relationships conversations it may be hard for females to put them self in male shoes. Yet the understanding of male side is of significance to the problem. Therefor input of a more male perspective is of value sometimes in some bates.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 29/11/2017 13:11

It would be wonderful to have lots more male voices on here. I thing MN would be more enriched.

Missed this gem - how?

1DAD2KIDS · 29/11/2017 13:13

Would a woman see it as sexist if people picked on her for being a woman because she was overtly a woman? Would you tell her to cover her self up as an unidentifiable object? Would that make it right? Also as we discussed before as its Mumsnet the default assumption is for many that the user is a woman. Thus to de-sex my users name would lead most to believe I was a woman. Is this not disingenuous?

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 29/11/2017 13:13

It would be wonderful to have lots more male voices on here. I thing MN would be more enriched.

Missed this gem - how? Please explain to me what enrichment these random, numerous men could bring to MN.

Lweji · 29/11/2017 13:14

Often for example relationships conversations it may be hard for females to put them self in male shoes. Yet the understanding of male side is of significance to the problem. Therefor input of a more male perspective is of value sometimes in some bates.

OK...
But in which circumstances exactly? Cheating? Porn? Violence? Domestic chores?

Do we need a man to come and tell us why it's so much more difficult for a man to understand how the washing machine works than it is to drive a car?

And, again, is there ONE male vs ONE female perspective?

1DAD2KIDS · 29/11/2017 13:15

Pumperthepumper I agree with others my voice is not all men's voices. More range and diversity of voices is good. Imagine how would people previse me saying more woman's voices a good thing how?

OP posts: