In not wanting to be a feminist

[tireddotcom72]

I know I’m not alone as have had this conversation with friends but does anyone else feel PC stuff is just going too far now. The gender stuff is confusing me - I’m female always have been always will be and perfectly happy that way I don’t want to identify whatever that means with anything else and change my mind or whatever the gender fluid thing is ( that really confuses me) I’m mum to a daughter - who when younger was a pink, princess, Barbie loving frilly dress wearing child. I loved her wearing pretty dresses and wanting pretty hair. I’ve always worked in female dominated jobs - through choice no one forced me from being little I wanted to be cabin crew, my parents would have preferred me to be a solicitor, accountant or doctor like my siblings but supported my decision to go into the beauty industry because that’s what I was happy doing.
When I was younger I was whistled at in the street, had my bum pinched in nightclubs etc I wasn’t offended or outraged.

I don’t want to live in a genderless world, I don’t want my teenage daughter being in gender neutral changing rooms, I don’t even like being referred to as someone’s partner I’m quite happy being called his girlfriend.

I don’t want to offend anyone with my probably old fashioned views - I’m not even old! But I’m getting fed up of constantly hearing and reading about what I should think and believe, i mean the latest fuss about Sleeping beauty ..... what will pc brigade want to ban next?

False accusations definitely do ruin lives. Celebs are in a different league, even heroin addiction can't ruin their life.

"False accusations definitely do ruin lives"

So what's your solution?

To the people who are fixing on this false allegation thing - what’s your solution then? To me it makes sense to believe someone who says they’re a victim - and it’s working because only 3% of claims are false. I’m not sure how we could make that figure lower, unless people are suggesting that we DON’T believe victims ever - because then there would be no convictions and no innocent people blamed. Happy to listen to other suggestions though, would genuinely love to hear them.

I disagree Yolo. The thread I started last year that I referred to earlier started because in my local news Facebook page, there were 2 stories - 1 about a rape in the city centre and 1 about an attack on a pensioner in the city centre. For the former people were outraged about 'innocent until proven guilty shame on the newspaper'. The latter was believed and calling for the accused to be hanged. Why do you think that is? It's nothing to do with violence - it's that women are not believed and men are always apparently falsely accused, but only when it comes to sexual assaults.

If I had a pound for the number of people who said "I know a guy falsely accused, him and his girl slept together and she regretted it so accused him of rape" i would be rich woman. I always ask if she was convicted for perverting the course of justice. The answer is always 'no'. Then I ask how do you know she was lying, were they present at the time? 'Oh not but he didn't rape her because this guy wouldn't do that and he said he didn't'. Imagine that, a man not admitting to rape.

It's misogyny pure and simple. I don't want any innocent person's lives to be ruined. But I'm saving my anger and passion for rape victims rather than the very few men who may or may not be affected by a false accusation.

Feminism is about women. Men can start heir own movement if they care about false accusations. Do Black Lives Matter activists ever get asked 'what about the white people'?

This popped up on my time hop from 3 years ago. It's as relevant as ever I believe.

Then let's take that a given in all cases, so when we discuss any crimes we don't have to keep on saying it as a distraction from discussing the crime itself

Exactly. But the 'some people are falsely accused' only ever pops up when discussing rape. Never burglary, never fraud, only rape and sexual assaults. I wonder why that is, but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with internalised misogyny.

I don't think there needs to be a solution. There are an innocent few people accused for every single crime on the planet. There doesn't need to be a special focus on rape and sexual assaults. If there was a distinct difference to those falsely accused of sex crimes than other crimes - so if for example 18% were false accusations rather than 3% - I'd say that yes something needs to be done. But it doesn't.

If rape wasn’t so common, then false accusations wouldn’t be a thing.

The problem here is men. Talking about anything is a distraction.

What I would like to think about is the unboublted fact that there are women reading to last 20 posts or so and thinking "That's typical of feminists. They all hate men and are happy to throw them under a bus" How do we change that?

These threads are so frustrating because people toss in something like ‘NAMALT’ or ‘what about false allegations’ and then never come back to engage with the response. I would LOVE someone who genuinely believes that men are not at fault to come and speak to me properly about it, with facts and reasoned debate. It never happens. It all boils down to ‘well that’s my opinion, the end’. And of course you’re allowed your opinion but COME ON! Engage with the facts from our side!

Honestly, Bertrand, I don’t think we can at the moment.

We’re living in an age where women get threatened, harassed and called “TERF” for refusing to accept that men can be women.

Gender is becoming increasingly polarised and is a hugely devisive issue.

We’re heading into a strange time.

It’ll change, but right now? Nothing will convince a hefty tranche of people that feminists are anything other than shrieking harpies.

I don't know the answer to that Bertrand but I wish I did.

We can’t. The motivations for holding such views are deeply, deeply entrenched. And sadly women are used to minimising to an incredible extent and also are conditioned to back down, make allowances and to see their own position as automatically less than and not worthy of much consideration. Cognitive dissonance.

It was always thus, and likely always will be.

On one hand I can almost understand it. Being aware is such a frustrating, depressing and ultimately deeply sad position to hold. That’s why people often rightly are so angry. We don’t have the luxury of being sanguine about it. I cannot unsee what I have seen, I cannot ever hold any other position.

You can’t stop people falsely accusing anyone of anything, You just can’t. You could give them a life sentence I suppose -as some sort of deterrent, but I doubt that would work.
But what you can’t have is a ‘who cares if a few innocent men get falsely accused & have their lives ruined’ attitude, because that’s the attitude of extremists ( & why the death penalty is no longer around in civilised society )

That's an excellent post Holger. I particularly agree with your last paragraph. There are times I am angry that I can't just pretend there isn't a problem.

Not finished the whole thread yet, but on the 'innocent men accused thing'

qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/

Might be interesting reading.

Furthermore, in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false. (Here, as elsewhere, it has to be assumed that some unknown percentage of the cases classified as false actually involved real rapes; what they don’t involve is countless innocent men’s lives being ruined.)

So 6 men arrested. Compared to thousands of real rapes. Yes efforts are best spent getting worked up about 6 people falsely accused who actually find out about it? As any false accusations before the arrest stage, the men will not even know there is a complaint made.

Of course it would be better if these 6 men were not arrested. But I genuinely do not see what can be done about that? And really do not see why some get more worked up about a very tiny number of men who have false accusations made and lose their jobs, than the thousands of guilty men who do rape/assault.

Also

However—to start with this worst-case scenario—it’s exceedingly rare for a false rape allegation to end in prison time. According to the National Registry of Exonerations, since records began in 1989, in the US there are only 52 cases where men convicted of sexual assault were exonerated because it turned out they were falsely accused. By way of comparison, in the same period, there are 790 cases in which people were exonerated for murder.

Is quite interesting. More people falsely imprisoned for murder, than sexual assault.

Finally..

People who claim not to be feminists on the basis of one tweet were looking for an excuse.

Is spot on. When people are claiming they are not feminists based on a tweet, or the opinion of one person..well..

"But what you can’t have is a ‘who cares if a few innocent men get falsely accused & have their lives ruined’ attitude"

Well, that's not a very nice way to put it, but the fact is undeniable. In order to bring to justice all the many men who will be found guilty there will be a few who prove to be innocent caught in the net. As with any crime. It is a deeply regrettable unintended consequence. I just don't know how we prevent it.

I just don't know how we prevent it.

Stop prosecuting for rape and sexual assault altogether clearly. Can;t have a few innocent men accused. I actually think some would only be happy with this, I know it sounds silly but when we are talking about such a tiny minority of falsely accused people and getting so worked up over it (when there are people falsely accused of all crimes, but only ever rape/sexual assault that seem to be a problem)..whats the other answer?

I would love someone to come up with a way we could prosecute all those who commit the crimes, and never get it wrong. But I can't see one? I mean, as it stands at the moment, even when people do admit to raping, they can get away with a fucking caution.

OP you have probably now left the thread, but you said in one of your posts, I am fed up of being told what I should or shouldn’t believe in because I’m female

So am I - that's why I call myself a feminist.

Is it a matter of "not caring"? I'd say rather an acceptance that our justice system is not failsafe - but that's true for all crimes. I'd be more worried about correcting things like the disparities in treatment and sentencing due to race and class than false rape allegations.

On a trivial note, why is it that it tends to only be anti/non feminists who use "female" as a noun?