In not wanting to be a feminist

[tireddotcom72]

I know I’m not alone as have had this conversation with friends but does anyone else feel PC stuff is just going too far now. The gender stuff is confusing me - I’m female always have been always will be and perfectly happy that way I don’t want to identify whatever that means with anything else and change my mind or whatever the gender fluid thing is ( that really confuses me) I’m mum to a daughter - who when younger was a pink, princess, Barbie loving frilly dress wearing child. I loved her wearing pretty dresses and wanting pretty hair. I’ve always worked in female dominated jobs - through choice no one forced me from being little I wanted to be cabin crew, my parents would have preferred me to be a solicitor, accountant or doctor like my siblings but supported my decision to go into the beauty industry because that’s what I was happy doing.
When I was younger I was whistled at in the street, had my bum pinched in nightclubs etc I wasn’t offended or outraged.

I don’t want to live in a genderless world, I don’t want my teenage daughter being in gender neutral changing rooms, I don’t even like being referred to as someone’s partner I’m quite happy being called his girlfriend.

I don’t want to offend anyone with my probably old fashioned views - I’m not even old! But I’m getting fed up of constantly hearing and reading about what I should think and believe, i mean the latest fuss about Sleeping beauty ..... what will pc brigade want to ban next?

Oops, that was meant to say, ‘I wouldn’t just find it worrying.’

It’s amazing how much people will argue just to be able to maintain the status quo. Yes it’s easier in some ways, and yes, maybe things aren’t that bad for a lot of women. But it’s pretty horrible for a great many, and is likely to get far worse with the vast strides of regression that so many seem hell bent on at the moment.

I know where I stand, and I stand there firmly and without reservation. I owe that to myself, my daughters and to all women.

I’m not interested in arguing, though, so I’m done here.

And no, I can’t understand that. Women who are ‘turned off’ by one individual or a small group of cranks on the fringes of a great and empowering movement, can have no feminist thoughts or perspective of their own, as if they did they would have the courage of their convictions and would not reject a whole movement based on one person’s personal opinion. Particularly a tweet, that well known limiting medium for setting out complex ideas. They would look at thè movement as a whole, think carefully every day about their own conduct and the choices they make and how they teach their daughters and more importantly their sons, how to navigate the world. They would live feminism rather than observing it.

Holger do you agree with her?

I have already told you, see Bertrand’s replies. And my subsequent comments have set my position out clearly. If you don’t have the capacity to understand, I really pity you. There is nothing further I can say to make it any more clear.

not reject a whole movement based on one person’s personal opinion

Would you assume members of the EDL hold the same views as Tommy Robinson?
I do.

Therefore unless feminists wish to completely and unequivocally distance themselves from views like Lindin's (which I'm not seeing at all here) I wouldn't want to be part of that movement.

One of my issues is why we call it feminism. Its equality we're aiming for, so why does the word have to revolve around women?

Also feminism does seem to be going on the 'being better than men' trail. I saw an article recently about the wage gap in certain areas of the country still being unequal between men and women. But the only ones being disgraced are the ones where women earn less than men. The areas where women out earned men was perfectly fine, no issues, the article even said these are the best places for women to live so they out earn men.

The point is to be equal. That's not equal. If one gender is out earning another, it's not equal. Doesn't matter which gender. That is my problem with it, everything revolves around women getting better than men lately, yet feminism is supposed to be about equality? That's not equality. I won't call myself a feminist because of this. And I am a woman.

I 100% agree with the Emily Linden quote. False accusations are so extremely rare and the rape myth that they are common is hugely damaging. I started a thread last year about why do people get so indignant when men are accused of rape but not so much for other crimes. The replies were shocking. This is a problem, the number of male 'victims' of false allegations are negligible, I care far more about the 80,000 women a year raped, of whom only a few hours and get justice

One of my issues is why we call it feminism. Its equality we're aiming for, so why does the word have to revolve around women?

Because historically and globally, it's women who are getting fucked over.

The second women start to do well for themselves, for the first time in human history, and you have women slapping them back into place.

If women out earn men its likely to be temporary. Dont worry, the men will soon catch up as soon as the women have to take a career break to have children.

What you are all getting so het up about is US style neoliberalism, not feminism.

And my subsequent comments have set my position out clearly. If you don’t have the capacity to understand, I really pity you. There is nothing further I can say to make it any more clear

You really haven't. Nice to see you going for the personal attack though. A simple yes or no would do. Do you agree with her views?

not reject a whole movement based on one person’s personal opinion

Thing is, people remember the really controversial stuff, that’s what sticks in their mind & they will form opinions on the movement as a whole, based on what certain feminists say, & as I said, it’s the ‘wow’ stuff that sticks.
So yes, people do judge a political party/ movement/ organisation/ based on what the people within those organisations are saying - & they assume other people within the organisation hold similar views ( example above re: the EDL )

This is a problem, the number of male 'victims' of false allegations are negligible, I care far more about the 80,000 women a year raped, of whom only a few hours and get justice

So the innocent men mentioned by Lindin. Are you happy for them to be collateral damage?

Grumpy I wouldn’t say I’m happy about it but I can’t see another way of doing it - what’s your suggestion?

No one here said they are. Stop making things up and pretending people say them.
Challenge people on things they actually say and do.

Yes or no is simplistic and I won’t play into your transparent attempts to back me into some corner on it.

This is the last comment I will make on it, because I believe you are being wilfully disingenuous and I don’t waste my time on people who aren’t actually interested. Playing games on this is insulting in the extreme to the subject matter.

I agree with the overarching principle, absolutely. My allegiance lies with the multitude of women who are victimised every day and their needs trump the protections of a hypothetical innocent man. Checks and balances in the law are there to protect the innocent as far as possible, and due to this many, many women do not see justice and many, many guilty men are acquitted. That pendulum swings both ways,

I do not agree with the terminology used in the statement - ‘don’t care’ or ‘ couldn’t care less’ or whatever it was, because that doesn’t accurately reflect my position on it. I care about innocents of both sexes, but in real terms, and working with the relevant context as it stands, I care much much more about doing something about the many instances of sexual assault and sexual violence against innocent women/girls. I won’t align or non-align myself to any further degree with the person quoted as I do not know who she is or what her general positions are, and I’m not going to base it on one quote without any context.

You are free to interpret my answer as yes or no.

People who claim not to be feminists on the basis of one tweet were looking for an excuse.

If everyone eschewed Tory and Labour on the basis of offensive tweets we would have no political system.

One of my issues is why we call it feminism. Its equality we're aiming for, so why does the word have to revolve around women?

Because in order to achieve anything near equality we need to centre women.

A 2013 CPS study showed that during the 17-month test period, when all false allegation cases were referred to the DPP, there were 5,651 prosecutions for rape and 111,891 for domestic violence in England and Wales.

There were only 35 prosecutions for making false allegations of rape, 6 for false allegations of domestic violence and 3 that involved false allegations of both rape and domestic violence.

GrumpyFrog. It is an unavoidable fact that some men will be accused of inappropriate sexual behaviour and be proved innocent. As with any other crime.

How do you think we can avoid this happening?

People who claim not to be feminists on the basis of one tweet were looking for an excuse.

This ^^

Feminism has the lowest body count of any movement in history. When people dismiss it as extremist they are not making an innocent misinterpretation, but rather a wilful one.

And of course I don't want innocent men's lives to be ruined by false accusations.

I also don't want innocent women's lives to be ruined by men not being brought to trial. Which is a much more common occurrence.

Ninon our rape crisis centre had a medical suite attached. It’s where they do the examinations and evidence gathering

Rape Crisis is a helpline, counselling and advocacy service.

Are you confusing it with a SARC or a Haven or somewhere like the 'SAFE' centre built at the Royal Preston Hospital?

Rape Crisis services were specifically developed to provide specialist services within women-only safe spaces. However, over half of the branches provide support services for men and boys who have experienced sexual violence, as a child or adult. Those that do not supply information about relevant support organisations that do. Yuu can also ring male helplines such as National Male Survivors, Mankind etc

If your local Rape Crisis didn't cover men and boys in your area, why not take him to A&E so he can be examined by male nurses/doctors.

Funding for Rape Crisis has been cut and many branches are only open part time. Instead of complaining about the services why not lobby for more funding?

So the innocent men mentioned by Lindin. Are you happy for them to be collateral damage

I don't want anyone to be collateral damage. But if someone has to be then I'd rather it be falsely accused men than rape** victims. Rape ruins lives. False accusations, contrary to popular belief, do not ruin lives. If it did then we wouldn't have the droves of actors, politicians and musicians who have been accused (some even convicted) of sexual crimes and continued a flourishing career with a good reputation with armies of fans defending their behaviour. If false accusations ruin lives then explain how a man accused many times had the most senior job in the world (Donald Trump)?

Meanwhile, rape ruins people's lives. And it makes it worse when people's default position is to disbelieve a victim and think of the poor man whose been falsely accused in all this despite actual false accusations being as rare as hen's teeth

So I won't apologise for believing that the men are in a more favourable position.