LBC.... Trans women and non trans women.

[therealposieparker]

AIBU to expect us to be called women?

At first we're cis, then non men and now non-trans?

What the hell is happening?

twitter.com/i/web/status/932386723073593350
this is the tweet

Manic, the same people who were calling us non-men last year?!

I hate the term cis-woman as well. I'm a woman. That's all there is to it.

I’ve never heard such shite
Every day there is a new ‘I identify as...’ crisis story.
You are born male or female. End of. I truly understand that people are born into the wrong body and I believe it is right for those to change to the opposite sex as appropriate. It allows them to live a happier life.
But what I just don’t get is gender fluidity. I really don’t. Maybe I don’t need to and I’m a dick for having this view, but you are male or female. Pick one and stick to it.

Thanks. Seems like it's maybe more just a badly worded individual tweet than a deliberate trend towards calling women 'non trans women' as a matter of course?

Oh, cross post with Nyx - I didn't know they'd started the non men thing too. Are they just a twitter organisation or do they have a tv/print influence?

floella I am desperately sorry your daughter is so unwell and that you and she are going through this. No one is denying that gender dysphoria is real or that it is very distressing especially for children. most people are saying clearly that everyone should be able to present themselves and name themselves however they want without discrimination. It should be as acceptable for men to be feminine as it is for women to have short hair and wear trousers.

What is being argued against here is the GRB and the political trans messages that massively erase and belittle women and girls.

How am I damaging or making things worse for your poor child by saying biology is a material fact and a male person can never be a biological woman? Or that a woman is an adult human female? As many detransitioning adults state, that reality has to be faced eventually. I am not damaging your daughter by refusing to be forced to unwillingly collude in a lie I don't believe. The message that if I resist surrendering my rights, my reality and my language I am responsible for your child feeling sucidal seems unfair to put it mildly.

I hope your child and you are receiving every possible help and support.

@FarFrom thank you. I think that is what is being forgotten here. Real people with real problems and very little support who are being done a disservice by extremist TRAs and rejected by most of society.

Floella, I'm so sorry your DD is in such pain and I hope she finds a way through it all. I have quite a lot of trans friends (trans men and various non-binary as well as trans women): there are social groups where trans people are just... part of the group and it's NBD to anyone.
I do think that some of the people who dislike 'trans' and consider them all to be aggressive woman-hating male predators in frocks have never had much to do with any trans people who are just going about their lives, and judge them by the one or two rather unpleasant examples who have a talent for attention-seeking (Lily Madigan springs to mind).

I think it's terrible that people are suicidal because they are not born the biological sex they want to be.

Nobody argues that.

Maybe the pressure should be on psychologists to find a helpful solution to this problem.

Before we decide that 'woman' is erased because blokes want to occupy female spaces.

The horrible truth is that they will never be the other biological sex because of science.

Manic, LBC were the biggest talk radio station in London but now they broadcast across the country

It's not one badly worded tweet, there's been the James O'Brien thing which I will link in a mo...l

Here it is
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3087218-James-OBrien-what-a-twat

God I’m sick to death of this shit.
I am a woman. Not a cis woman. There is no need for the term - just “woman” is fine.

Men can’t be women. Women can’t be men.

If I like someone and they’re sensible about things and they like to be referred to as “she” etc I might indulge them. However I would probably slip up frequently because trying to remember to refer to a bloke as “her” would be difficult because it’s so bloody stupid.

Similarly I’d probably refuse to play along with an anorexic and agree that she was fat.

an lbc employee i know will be liked on mumsnet www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/07/27/nigel-farage-insists-that-donald-trump-has-a-point-about-transgender-people/

the US military budget is about 700 billion. unless the price of trans treatment has skyrocketed, it should be a drop in the bucket.

I have never personally heard the term "non-trans women". If I happen to be with people from the LGBT community then yes, when relevant I refer to myself as cis. But it's simply because it makes conversation and debate easier as I simply have to say "as a cis-woman I..." while a trans-woman would say "as a transwoman I..." so there is no hard feelings as we both acknowledge that we are both women just that I was born with/gifted the correct part and she wasn't. Not that big of a deal. Absolutely nobody from trans community I know would ever us the word "non-trans" (unless talking to a group made exclusively of transgender people I guess) as they all know that they are the minority and not the majority. Most trans people I know actually aren't into stirring ridiculous debates and more worried about how to go about their daily lives while being true to themselves without risking being assaulted and/or rape/killed to care too much about the word used to refer to women born with female genitalias.

Nyx1 wrote
"Glad this in AIBU, looks like this problem might start getting attention."

Are you kidding? Every single day there are these threads in AIBU, with the same overinflated claims.

Ring the changes a bit, people.

It was a badly worded tweet.

the US military budget is about 700 billion. unless the price of trans treatment has skyrocketed, it should be a drop in the bucket.
what barracks showers or toilets should they use?

Or rather, what Linning said above, far more eloquently and sensibly.

You can't dismiss it as a 'badly worded tweet'. According to the TRA stance, words are literal violence and actually kill people (though it's fine to tell 'TERFs' to die in a fire apparently). They have made language a key part of the debate and consequently, words are of crucial importance when debating this issue.

For people attempting to shame gender critical feminists by suggesting they align with Trump and Farage - yes, it's uncomfortable to chime with the far right and the odious on any issue. But I can assure you that the Daily Mail and its ilk are not up in arms out of concern for women's rights, fairness and equality. They may well be motivated by the bigotry people imagine they see in the feminist argument. We may not want to allow self ID to open the doors to all female spaces, but we object on different grounds and I'd wager that we have a very different vision of te place of transgender people in society. I want trans people treated fairly and equally with access to plenty of support and third spaces when it comes to refuges, hospital wards, prisons etc. I don't want trans people to be abused, attacked or discriminated against. That doesn't mean I will redefine myself according to the viewpoint of TRAs and it certainly doesn't mean I support the transing of young children, the reinforcement of gender stereotypes or self-ID. None of those things benefit trans people and they definitely don't benefit women as a class. I don't believe that reflects Trump's viewpoint or Farage's and I really despair of the simplistic and robotic excuse for 'debate' we are seeing in the 'transwoman are women, you are bigots' mantra.

I've decided I'm referring to myself as female.

I was born that way. Something they can never claim.

And no one is born into the wrong body. It's not possible.

Feminist analysis needs to return to its radical starting point of sex. The move away from the structural basis of oppression in its analysis, to the post modern and post structuralist starting point and obsession with gender paved the way. Far from undermining the social and cultural basis of gender performativity, it's reinforced it as though it were a concrete thing. It's not a concrete category precisely because trans undermines it as a concrete reality.

This is why I don’t understand gender fluid... surely there isn’t anything stopping anyone from feeling more masculine or feminine from day to day. Some days I scrape my hair up, stick on jeans, boots and a shirt. I don’t feel like being feminine that day. Some days I spend ages on hair and makeup, wear glitter etc. However I don’t consider myself gender fluid... I consider myself a perfectly normal person. Biologically I’m a a female and this is what I am. As a general rule of thumb I am more feminine. I enjoy some of the stereotypes associated with women and some of the stereotypes associated with being a man. If gender fluid people are so desperate to scratch off labels, why are they sticking more on?!

Linning: Most trans people I know actually aren't into stirring ridiculous debates and more worried about how to go about their daily lives while being true to themselves without risking being assaulted and/or rape/killed to care too much about the word used to refer to women born with female genitalias.

And there is no problem with those people. The argument and problem refers to the small number of people who are aggressive and violent to women, insist on forcing their language on women, refuse to listen to women, and want access to resources aimed at women.