LBC.... Trans women and non trans women.

[therealposieparker]

AIBU to expect us to be called women?

At first we're cis, then non men and now non-trans?

What the hell is happening?

The whole point is to feel comfortable with who you are. You can’t erase history. You can identify with whatever you want but that doesn’t make it so.
If you are a trans woman, well done, I’m sure it was one hell of a battle to overcome. Why not be proud of the journey you have taken? It has made you who you are as a person. It shows you are strong, wilful and brave. Don’t deny the journey ever took place.

biological speaking women can have penis's look up xx male syndrome XX

This is a chromosomal disorder

But please define "woman". What is a woman?

A woman is an adult human with two x-chromosomes.

I want to be Spanish. I love Spanish food and I have learnt Spanish. Therefore I am
I demand to live on the Costa Del sol. Can someone send me there please away from all this fucking nonsense

Curry, can you help Floella’s child at all? What would you say might be the right advice?
Floella, it’s truly shit to have a child or teenager expressing suicidal thoughts. I’m assuming from your phrasing that they’re socially rather than biologically female; sorry if I’ve got that backwards. Not sure there are any good answers, but I hope they find some peace of mind.

I was at school with a girl who wanted to be American soooo much. Her uncle lived there so she told everyone that she was actually, American. She had the accent, lingo, everything. This was secondary school.

Just to be pedantic, the protected characteristics are actually sex and gender reassignment - NOT gender identity.
So you are only legally included if you have a GRC. Which a large chunk of transgender identifying people don't have.

biological speaking women can have penis's look up xx male syndrome XX

This is a chromosomal disorder
maybe so but biologically speaking a women is someone with xx chromozone and theres been many posts correctly stating the need for scientific accuracy and facts.

@FriendNoMore

Actually, you are the one committing hate crimes!

How dare you compare "terfs" to nazis?!? I think you need a history lesson, as well as a few biology lessons!

Their subredditt is the Nazi Stormfront of TERF's.

Obvious troll is obvious.

I thought the post specifically mentioned that women are xx/Vagina-owning "in the absence of chromosomal DSD"

Being a woman makes you a woman, some women can have a penis makes them no less a woman.

Isn't that a line from Monty Python?

Hilarious as ever.

Just to be pedantic, the protected characteristics are actually sex and gender reassignment - NOT gender identity

I that case I would (I think) support gender identity becoming a protected characteristic (as long as it is made clear this is not about sex)

maybe so but biologically speaking a women is someone with xx chromozone and theres been many posts correctly stating the need for scientific accuracy and facts

You are quite right. But TIMs do not have XX chromosomes.

If a transwoman is admitted to hospital and not conscious and unable to self identify they are going to be identified as male.

If a transwoman's skeleton is dug up in 1,000 years it will be identified as male.

You can't make something real just by saying it. It has to be backed up by evidence. It cannot rely on you just saying it.

I have no issue with transwomen at all. It must be a difficult journey. Discriminating against or bullying transpeople should of course be illegal. I want transpeople to have human rights and would fight to defend them. But they cannot have women's rights.

This current wave of trans seems to have little to do with genuine transsexuals who feel they are born in the wrong body and everything to do with a small minority of special snowflakes who distinctly dislike women. I imagine many transpeople are as alarmed as the rest of mumsnet (if not more - they can't be making their lives easy) by the misogyny and entitlement shown by this small group of TRAs at the moment.

I thought the post specifically mentioned that women are xx/Vagina-owning "in the absence of chromosomal DSD"
what post? www.dictionary.com/browse/female definition of female

Ho hum. If a 'person' with a penis wants to wear a dress and lipstick then they are welcome to it. Unfortunately for them, I will never consider them a woman. If that makes me a bigot then so be it. Ho hum.

Why can't it just be seen that no one has an issue with how anyone wants to dress or what pronouns they want to be called? Why can't it be understood that as women we object to being told what we are and how we should define ourselves? We don't want to be called non trans or cis we don't want to be told that saying someone is a pregnant woman is offensive because a trans woman cannot carry a child in a womb she doesn't have?
Why are we transphobic for wanting penises to stay out of women only spaces?
I will never fully understand what a trans person goes through because I'm not a trans person just like a trans person will never fully understand the struggles women have gone through.
I don't believe in conforming to gender stereotypes if a person wants to walk down the street in a tutu and identify as a fairy or a garden gnome I will support their right to. What i cannot support though is anyone who has a penis being given an easy way into women safe places are. The gender identity bill is something I have no doubt a certain few will abuse and that will put vulnerable women and children at risk.

Unfortunately we live in a society that doesn't always respect the rights of others and one that means no one is at risk of harm or abuse and I really wished that as a society we could all treat each other with the love and respect that a person deserves but we don't and until we do then we have to look at things and do things that protect those in our society that are most vulnerable.

anyone that says they are a woman is a woman

No, they are not. Adult human females are women. This gaslighting nonsense is dangerous, in particular for trans children and teens and I won't validate it, or be intimidated by being called silly names.

Wishful thinking and mental distress does not trump reality, and the way to help people suffering from it is not to lie in the false belief it's being 'nice' or 'liberal', or to collude with denying reality to try and protect them from it.

Friend. On the whole Mumsnetters are incredibly accepting of anyone and everyone. Most of us believe that you should be free to dress as you wish, do what you want in your free time, call yourself what you want and just generally live as you choose without anyone attacking you for that. Live and let live, peace and love, tolerance.

BUT. You can't start rewriting biology by saying ludicrous things such as people with a penis are in fact women. They're not. There is nothing wrong with a male deciding he wants to paint his nails, take up flower arranging and call himself Fiona. If that makes him happy, then great. But he's still a man.

Sorry runners, I thought you were replying to someone. Might be getting my threads mixed up!

Transwomen, will never understand the fear of letting your teenage daughters into a changing room where a trans gender person is also allowed. At The Same Time.
Because they are not able to give birth because they are not biologically female.
They have no womb or Cervix.
I am more than happy for my daughters to share a dressing room with a transwoman who has transitioned however.

If I'm a non-transwoman, and we all know transwomen are women (#nodebate, right?) then that means I'm actually a no -woman, so therefore a man.

Great! Give me my 15% pay rise now!

If transwomen are women and there's no distinction, why are we having trans remembrance day? Why don't we just have a day to remember the 2 women a week who are killed by DV? Or a day to remember the young men who tragically commit suicide at a higher rate than any other group?

If there’s no possible non-circular definition of 'woman', how do transwomen know what they’re identifying with?

Transwomen, will never understand the fear of letting your teenage daughters into a changing room where a trans gender person is also allowed. At The Same Time.
Because they are not able to give birth because they are not biologically female.
They have no womb or Cervix.
do you think the same as women born without a womb? or other women for whatever medical reason cant give birth?