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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

LBC.... Trans women and non trans women.

289 replies

therealposieparker · 21/11/2017 18:39

AIBU to expect us to be called women?

At first we're cis, then non men and now non-trans?

What the hell is happening?

OP posts:
catgirl1976 · 21/11/2017 19:40

Friend If I identify as a "woman" (which I do) than by your logic it is a hate crime to call me a "non trans woman" or a "cis woman" because I do not identify as any of those.

Cis is offensive. Non Trans is offensive. Stop committing hate crime against my sex (protected characteristic) and my gender identity (protected characteristic) by using those terms please.

And then define "woman" to me. In a way that stands up to even the littlest smidgen of critical thinking.

Repeating "trans women are women" does not make it true.

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

NotAgainYoda · 21/11/2017 19:40

I am also sorry when anyone feels something that's not objectively true. Must be very disturbing.

FriendNoMore · 21/11/2017 19:41

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runners656 · 21/11/2017 19:42

a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman. definition of female dosnt explain why semenya is allowed in womens races though i personally think the changing rooms im not sure what id have more of a problem with a trans man going into the female changing room or a trans women going into the female changing room

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 21/11/2017 19:42

I am sorry that trans people suffer from mental health problems more so than other groups. However I don’t see how selling them a lie is ever going to be the solution. I hope trans people can access the support they need to live a happy and healthy life. But that support should not be denying biology, encouraging life changing alterations to their body, and reinforcing gender stereotypes that already do so much damage.

formerbabe · 21/11/2017 19:42

Being a woman makes you a woman, some women can have a penis

This would be funny if it wasn't so terrifying.

user1471459936 · 21/11/2017 19:42

And you (Friend) aren't a woman and can't understand the issues here.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/11/2017 19:44

women are women

Again, what is a woman? I know you said anyone else who says they are but imagine you have two forms in front of you, both from men who wish to be recognised as women.

One is a sexual predator

One is a trans person

How do you tell which is which, or are they both women because they say they are?

NauticalDisaster · 21/11/2017 19:45

I'll say it again, stating scientific facts is not a hate crime.

Denying a TIM housing or employment based on their trans status is discrimination.

Beating up a TIF is a hate crime.

Ostracising a trans identified individual from participating in society is discrimination.

Stating scientific fact is not a hate crime. A TIM is male, TIF is female.

Inertia · 21/11/2017 19:46

The Emperor's New Clothes are clothes.

Floellabumbags · 21/11/2017 19:46

Not a daughter if they're changing/dressing anywhere near my daughter, mate

You're not my mate.

As sad as I am for children with disorders such as dysphoria it doesn't bode well to be complicit in their self abuse. I wouldn't help my daughter starve to death if she was anorexic.

So what would you do? Maybe you can give me some parenting advice that will cure her dysphoria.

JollyWankers · 21/11/2017 19:47

Didn't take long for Godwin's law to come up.

runners656 · 21/11/2017 19:48

biological speaking women can have penis's look up xx male syndrome XX male syndrome

FriendNoMore · 21/11/2017 19:48

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catgirl1976 · 21/11/2017 19:48

If there are no subsets then it must follow that all women are also transwomen.

TammySwansonTwo · 21/11/2017 19:49

Shutting down discussion with accusations of hate speech is exactly how we've gotten into such a dire situation in this first place, with the issues growing.

I have no problem whatsoever with consenting adults choosing to transition to another gender, and I'm more open minded than most since I'd also agree that being transracial or transabled is no less legitimate than being transgender - you can't have it both ways.

However, I am extremely concerned about how easily it may become for anyone with any motivation to self identify as female. I am concerned about the risks of this to women and to trans women. I am concerned that we must pretend that lived experience and male privilege don't exist. I am very concerned that kids are being given extreme drugs - a drug I had to take myself for two years and which has nigh-in destroyed my health for the last decade - with the fuzzy moniker of "puberty blockers" and being told they're safe (my blood tests, bone density scans and morphine requirements beg to differ). I'm concerned that gender politics is regressing and boys who want to play with dolls are now being told they're probably really girls and vice versa. I'm concerned that, if you spend even a small amount of time looking, you'll find Reddit posts from MtF saying they despise women, theyget arpused by being referred to as women, they worry that HRT will make them more stupid (you know, because women are stupid). I'm concerned about law changes where men convicted of serious sexual offences could simply fill in a form and become eligible for a place in a womens prison.

Mostly I am concerned that we cannot even have a conversation about this without being labelled transphobes. It's not us who are behaving like nazis or thought police.

I have always been extremely liberal, an LGBT ally, I have defended the rights of LGBT people for as long as I can remember - but the current angle of trans ideology is becoming dangerous for everyone.

hooochycoo · 21/11/2017 19:51

But please define "woman". What is a woman?

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 21/11/2017 19:51

Two things.

One: WELCOME BACK Posie!!!!!

Two: FriendNoMore, please keep doing what you're doing and see how many MNers you can bring to peak trans in one evening.

Floella, that must be tough and I've gathered that Mermaids are worse than useless. Have you talked to FourthWaveNow?

OrderMeACurry · 21/11/2017 19:52

You are a commiting hate crime when you bash women like that for their identity

I am still way too sober for this shit.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/11/2017 19:53

Maybe you can give me some parenting advice that will cure her dysphoria

If that was a genuine question, and you don't think that hormones and surgery are the answer there is a support forum here

gendercriticalresources.com/Support/

You will need to register to get access.

runners656 · 21/11/2017 19:53

But please define "woman". What is a woman?
i did simply someone withh xx chromozone and NORMALLY has a vagina ect

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/11/2017 19:54

Yes they are both women

Even though only one of them believes it?

OrderMeACurry · 21/11/2017 19:54

Yes they are both women.

If you say it enough times it might just come true.

FriendNoMore · 21/11/2017 19:54

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Frederickvonhefferneffer · 21/11/2017 19:54

someone who is born a man but chooses to identify as a woman is not a woman, to say this is common sense, it is not in anyway said with hate, or discrimination- just logic. I have no negative feelings towards a man who identifies as a woman at all, we should all be allowed to live how we like. I think we need a third space for people who don’t feel they fit in to man/woman identifies- a third changing room, a third toilet etc

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