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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Re: staff visiting employer in hospital

177 replies

ChangeyNamey1893 · 17/11/2017 00:51

My MIL recently became critically ill after a long illness. She was cared for at home by a maid.

She got very ill and eventually had to go in to hospital where she sadly died a week after being admitted. During the week she was in hospital we only had immediate family visiting (her husband, her children, their partners, her brothers and her husband's siblings).

Later when arranging the funeral the maid was told which days would be best for her to attend. She had a bit of a go at FIL and made it clear she was annoyed and upset that she hadn't been allowed to visit in hospital (he ignored this).

Were we being unreasonable to not have her visit? I wouldn't expect to go and visit my boss on his deathbed! This maid although nice is prone to being over emotional and also a source of irritation and exasperation for MIL.

OP posts:
chocz · 17/11/2017 14:55

This reply has been deleted

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Seeingadistance · 17/11/2017 15:26

I agree with babyboomersrock, completely.

Death is very much not a spectator sport, and it is my experience that the closer someone comes to death, then the fewer visitors there are. As I've already said, it is not at all unusual for only very close family to be present as the end approaches. Friends and extended family, if they have any sensitivity at all, and they usually do, understand and respect this.

Timmytoo · 17/11/2017 16:55

CrissCross actually you’re wrong. Maybe just your friend sees things like that but I’m in SA and everyone I know of who’ve had housekeepers are very close to them and would have definitely wanted to say goodbye to them. Alot of house keepers are live in. The only times I experienced hierarchy was actually when I lived in the UK and had the misfortune of being a manager in the retail industry!

PoisonousSmurf · 17/11/2017 17:04

Can she at least go to the funeral?

pallisers · 17/11/2017 17:08

I suspect the maid was upset because no one bothered to explain to her that MIL had asked for no visitors and wasn't able to see anyone outside immediate family and this was why they weren't asking her to visit. I imagine if they had explained to the woman, she wouldn't have said anything.

I don't care what culture you are from, a live-in maid or housekeeper who is with you for 5 years is different from a hairdresser or person who works in your marketing department. My cleaner comes once a week for the past 16 years and we are very close. I have visited her in hospital. My aunt's live-in housekeeper was mentioned in her death notice. I have a cousin who was diagnosed with cancer at age 40 and died 2 years later with small children. Her au pair stayed on with the family for that 2 years to keep the show on the road. She was mentioned in the eulogy.

oldlaundbooth · 17/11/2017 17:17

Let's hope the maid finds a nicer employer.

iamafraidofvirginiawolves3cats · 17/11/2017 18:38

I do hope this is not true. Who calls people 'staff' these days? I was imagining everyone from the office or school trailing past!
Perhaps the 'maid' didn't ask because she knew she wouldn't be allowed. If she was so awful to deserve all the negative things you and the test of the family think of her, how could you ask her to provide care for MIL during her dying days? To put someone you couldn't stand to have visiting her in charge of looking after her for hours and hours when MIL was most vulnerable? That was OK, but visiting the hospital wasn't? Really?

NorthernLurker · 17/11/2017 18:45

So she was good enough to look after your mil but not good enough to visit her even once as she was dying? Yeah I can see why the maid is upset!

I'm sure you're all very upset op but you behaved badly over this.

Choccywoccyhooha · 17/11/2017 19:05

OP, are you in Hong Kong, or another country which has a lot of South-East Asian "maids"?

Your attitude sounds very similar to the way that I have heard people talking about their Filipino "maids " in HK: treating them as if they are "less than" or beneath their employers. Just because it is the norm in your country to treat people this way does not make it okay, maids are humans too, and the cultural elitism that allows certain groups to look down on Filipino and Nepalese women is appalling.

Your attitude towards this woman, in fact your whole family's attitude towards her is at best unplesant, and at worst dehumanising. If your MIL had such an awful relationship with her why was she kept on? I suspect because this kind of "ownership" of other human beings is a status symbol, and because the agencies charge to replace household staff.

I'm sorry for your loss, but your family sound awful.I have no time for these archaic hierarchies, and they really do have no place in the 21st century. Your family were being horribly unreasonable.

kazillionaire · 17/11/2017 19:10

What an unpleasant family you must seem to the maid, I hope as you put extra duties on her you saw fit to increase her pay for that period.

garmsfresh · 17/11/2017 21:24

Another different world thread! First night nannies now maids love it here.

Italiangreyhound · 17/11/2017 23:47

choccy "If your MIL had such an awful relationship with her why was she kept on? I suspect because this kind of "ownership" of other human beings is a status symbol, and because the agencies charge to replace household staff."

The woman is employed, she is not owned. That is deeply offensive.

Plus please remember the OP s not the mum, she is a woman whose MIL has just died. Your post is appalling.

kazillionaire how do you know there will be more duties? I expect the maid did not feel this was an awful family, if she did she would not be upset at the death of her employer.

OP I think lots of people are offended your MIL could afford to employ someone, offended that you used the word maid and are replying to this as well as any feelings towards your MIL's employer. The fact your MIL provided emotional support to this lady means they must have had some kind of good relationship. But realistically the grieving family and the wishes of the person dying do take precedent.

Whyamistillawake · 18/11/2017 03:59

Italian I'm not offended by either of those things. As someone who employs a maid, I think the maid was treated badly here. It's clear to me that she was excluded because she was a maid, not because of anything else.

As an aside, I use the term 'maid' because it's the best description of what the woman who worka for me does. When my children were smaller I would more often use 'nanny' but childcare isn't a massive part of her role now. I think by calling her anything else I'm suggesting there's something wrong with being a maid.

chocz · 18/11/2017 05:32

Wow using the word lacky

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 18/11/2017 05:53

YABVU. Your attitude towards this woman is appalling; you should be ashamed of yourself.

I also can't understand why in her final days you all wanted someone MIL was "exasperated" by to care for her!

While she was dying, why didn't her husband or children care for her? Or you, if you had a close relationship.

Italiangreyhound · 18/11/2017 09:40

@Whyamistillawake then I will correct my comment to (which I did actually mean) some people are offended.

And to be honest this is all a bit ludicrous. This lady cares for her employer and friend on her last days so she certainly did see her. Just not at the very end.

How can the feelings of an employee or friend take precidence I we s spouse, a son or a daughter in law. And does a daughter on law impose any kind of change in attitude on a (presumably quite old) grieving widower! The idea a man who has lost his wife partner, the mother of his child/ren should 've forced into considering how a friend of 5 years (let one an employee) will feel seems to be elevating the friend/employee to a much higher status!

I think one thing that might be going on is different cultural expectations. The last may be from a culture where everyone is expected to behave one way, but if the FIL is English then the expectations around death (generally) might be quite different.

@chocz who said lackey? If it was me, it was by accident, I was trying to type lady!

@WhatToDoAboutThis2017 what so mean/ she was cared for elsewhere on her final days! That's prettty much what the whole thread is about. Plus when someone is dying it is not always easy to make lots of rational decisions.

The lack of empathy on this thread is shocking!

Italiangreyhound · 18/11/2017 09:44

So it looks like she was cared for by the lady (maid) then by medical staff with family attending. So we are talking about quite a short time between the maid seeing her and her actual death.

tumblrpigeon · 18/11/2017 09:52

Op you are 100% in the right.

I only know this because I watched my own mother die in a hospice in the last few months.

When she became really unwell she only wanted her husband and children by her bed.
She had loads of friends but that was what she, and we wanted.

Not even grandchildren of her siblings in the last week.

And yes, some people were offended.
But it was the right thing.

Seeingadistance · 18/11/2017 14:06

I find many of the comments on this thread to be really disturbing in their lack of empathy, sympathy and some for their sheer callousness.

The OP's mother in law has died. She was ill for a long time, and when she became very much worse, and it was probably clear that the end was near, she went into hospital. In her final days her family - her husband, children and their spouses, stayed with her, not knowing when the end would come and every moment precious. They spoke with her and about her, they reminisced about earlier and happier times. Her family, those who knew her best, loved her and respected her wishes. Her family who were with her as she died, and who are now grieving.

And yet, there are people on this thread who are attacking the OP and her family for having spent time privately with the OP's mother in law as she lay dying.

Seriously?!

BakedBeans47 · 18/11/2017 14:16

You sound like awful snobby people. Why ask if you are BU when you then come on like an attitude like you have?

I suppose it is up to the family members who they allow to visit but I don’t think it’s unreasonable that a member of household staff might have wanted to visit the lady she worked for for many years, regardless of the horrible opinion you have of her.

When my Gran was in hospital after her stroke before she died her home help frequently went to visit, it meant a lot to us that she saw my Gran as a friend not just a client and my Gran I know was very fond of her too. We’d never have dreamed of telling her to stay away.

BakedBeans47 · 18/11/2017 14:27

And yet, there are people on this thread who are attacking the OP and her family for having spent time privately with the OP's mother in law as she lay dying.

No, I think it’s the attitude they all seem to have about the “maid” that’s got people’s back up, it certainly has mine.

FuzzyOwl · 18/11/2017 14:27

when you're sitting vigil by your mother's death bed, you'll let all her friends, colleagues, cleaner, maybe lawyer, dentist

None of these people are likely to have lived with someone for five years though. As much as she may have annoyed your MIL, and maybe it was mutual, there would have been much more of a bond than that of a normal employer/employee etc. I can think of marriages where both people annoy the other one immensely but they absolutely have a strong bond and would have wanted to see one another in their final days. Was your MIL well enough to have asked to see her if she wished?

I think that if neither the maid/housekeeper nor your MIL asked to see each other during those final days then YANBU (although if you knew MIL was likely to die, it would have been nice to have asked) but if either did and it was refused then that would have been unreasonable.

Seeingadistance · 18/11/2017 14:34

And another personal attack on a bereaved family!

When my Gran was in hospital after her stroke before she died her home help frequently went to visit, it meant a lot to us that she saw my Gran as a friend not just a client and my Gran I know was very fond of her too. We’d never have dreamed of telling her to stay away.

From what the OP has said, her MIL did not consider the maid to be a friend, she was not fond of the maid, and the family did not actually tell the maid to stay away. It's lovely that your gran and her home help had such a close and affectionate relationship, but that was not the case here.

Perhaps those who are so adamant that the OP's family are terrible people for not thinking to invite the maid to come and watch a women dying should think of someone they know well, but don't like. Bring that person to mind, think of all the ways they irritate and annoy you, especially when you're not feeling at your best, and think to yourself - is their face, is their voice, the last I would choose to see and hear in this life?

BakedBeans47 · 18/11/2017 14:39

Perhaps those who are so adamant that the OP's family are terrible people for not thinking to invite the maid to come and watch a women dying should think of someone they know well, but don't like

I already said it would have been up to the family who they let attend, but why would they have had the woman work for them for 5 years, including providing an element of personal care, if they disliked her?

Maybe I am doing the OP and her family a massive disservice but all we have to go on is what she’s posted and they seem to have a dreadful attitude towards this lady and see her as beneath them.

Seeingadistance · 18/11/2017 14:39

I think it’s the attitude they all seem to have about the “maid” that’s got people’s back up, it certainly has mine

I agree with you that it's the fact that this woman is a maid that is provoking the lack of empathy and the callous remarks to and about a recently bereaved family.

I wonder how different this thread would have been if instead of a maid the woman who made a fuss, after the fact when it was too late anyway, about not being able to see a dying woman, was, for example, a long-term neighbour with whom the deceased had maintained a civil but not close relationship. Would the family be considered snobby, hard, unpleasant etc, for not inviting a long-term neighbour/not friend to join them at the death bed?