to have just cried when DS told me this? (edited by MNHQ)

[ReallyNormalForNorfolk]

He's only just turned 7, and appears to have worked it all out for himself. Santa doesn't exist, does he mummy? It's just you and daddy isn't it? I honestly didn't know what to say. I don't like to lie exactly, and sort of changed the subject to how you can believe in things that you can't see - like love, different people's gods, etc. He then said religion was a load of rubbish and not true as he had never seen an angel come down from heaven. Fair dues, a rational analysis I guess, but I was hoping that this moment wouldn't be quite so soon.
He is in fact a very rational little boy, and I don't want to lie to him, and give him the time to make his own mind up - but I am sad to say I did shed a tear or two because it seemed like such a loss of innocence/watershed type growing up moment. I said "should we forget about xmas then?" No, he still wants the presents! I haven't confirmed or denied anything - just feel a bit awkward about it all -wwyd?

Children love believing in magic, it's a big part of childhood and always has been. There really is nothing wrong with that. There's plenty of time to be skeptical and boring like half of you later in life

But they usually aren’t given the choice. The indoctrination starts early (by adults), an it stems many adults will do anything to extend it for as long as possible. It’s by adults and for adults.

There is lots of magic in the world without santa. The pagans gave gifts without needing an imaginary bring to justify it.

There is lots of magic in the world without santa. The pagans gave gifts without needing an imaginary bring to justify it.

Well good for them

How can people honestly take this so seriously. Tell your DC santa exists or not, who cares?

Quite. Surely the kind act is the reason for giving gifts? Not to reward/elicit good behaviour or because it’s supposedly magical how they get there? Those things don’t go hand in hand at all.

The traditional Saint Nicholas account does not reference the receivers being rewarded for good behaviour. They were just a impoverished family.

I’m not so sure about other the traditions. However the good behaviour aspect certainly is not central to the Santa tradition.

The pagans gave gifts without needing an imaginary bring to justify it.

But much of the Father Christmas myths stem from pagan traditions and folktales from Scandinavia. Flying reindeer, for example.

Yes, but those gifts weren’t given on condition of something else, were they? Eg nice/naughty list, only if you believe etc.

I think we are violently agreeing TittyGolighty. Just saying the ‘naughty or nice’ is not really that traditional. I never had it as part of the traditions with my own D.C. although they did not want Santa visiting from an early age and I just told them about the traditions and the idea of giving and being kind to people being the central theme of them which people take on and accredit to Santa.

Why does it not count as lying though? Or manipulation, in the case of “better not pout better not cry etc” ?
I don’t really have super strong feelings either way ,just curious. but i think kids can engage their imaginations without believing it’s “real”. I think once it crosses the line of fun game and kids straight out ask and start taking it seriously you should tell the truth , especially if you expect honesty from your children. I don’t personally see the the distinction between lying and telling your kid something exists when you know it doesn’t.
I don’t think it will scar them for life, but of course it’s lying

I am sorry, I have not read all the threads, so i may be repeating what has already been said.

I think your son is asking some serious questions and it is a fantastic opportunity to give him some serious and supportive answers.

Yes, Santa is a story. However, it is a nice story for little children. He has been very clever to have worked things out for himself. People give presents to people who they love and Christmas provides the chance for us to give each other presents.

Yes we celebrate different religions. Moreover, different religions have celebrations around Christmas time. Perhaps introduce a bit of history.

You can still have a brilliant Christmas and make this a special time of the year, celebrating peace, good will, reaching out to the poor and so on. It is up to you, as his parents, whether you bring home the Christian message, but good things are celebrated at Christmas time.

I am sure you will have a lovely Christmas.

Dustbunny if you don't know the answer to that then you obviously don't understand magic at all. Pretending but really knowing is not the same thing at all. A game doesn't have to have a disappointing reality check out of some obscure fear about lying to children.

Titty you can't give a child a choice. That would ruin it wouldn't it they really don't need a choice, that's the adult fear again. Honestly santa does not scar a child for life or anything else dramatic. It's just santa and you just don't get it.

This whole “Santa is real” stuff is such a new thing you know - driven by rubbish Hollywood films. When I was growing up in the 50’s - 60’s it was just a fun story. That’s how we brought our dc up in the 90’s, when I first became aware of the “Santa is real” brigade. My MIL used to give all the dc “a stocking from Santa”, they all knew it was from Gran, no issues. It really is a lovely fictional story that can be enjoyed as a story ..... stories are great, powerful, inspiring, moving, but still fiction.

This whole “Santa is real” stuff is such a new thing you know - driven by rubbish Hollywood films

Ah yes, I think it all began with the film Miracle on 34th street in 1994...

My daughter has the choice. I have it to her by not telling her santa was or wasn’t real. Not bits my carrots or sprinkling talc on the floor. Not pushing her to write letters and lists. Not writing santa on presents.

She’s had enough exposure from other areas of life to know the story and doesn’t seem to need to believe it as a real thing.

Have done the same with other belief systems. It’s her choice what she believes and when, not mine.

Believing Santa is real didn't begin in 1994... Seriously?

I can still remember when I was 5 and my Dad wore a Santa costume and gave out gifts at a company Christmas party. (Yes in those days such things did happen!) I ran around telling all the kids that Santa was really just my Dad - and was told off for it.

This happened to me too! When we were in Y1 'Santa' arrived in our school playground in a helicopter, everyone got a present and when it was my turn I recognized my DF's very distinctive watch and announced his true identity

My DD encountered the concept of Santa in the book 'Stickman'. She was 50/50 on whether she thought it was possible/plausible versus totally terrifying that a strange man would come in your house without your permission while you were asleep.

Its been a bit of a problem ever since.

It's not new at all

"Obscure fear" of lying to your child? Yea I guess I do have a "fear" of lying to my child's face and then expecting them to be honest in return. It's not imagination if your made to believe (lied to) that is really real.

Honestly santa does not scar a child for life or anything else dramatic.

It did affect me as a child when I found out my parents had lied to me. (I was 6.) this was compounded by being forced to continue to lie with them for my you get sister’s sake. I spent longer lying about it than experiencing the magic of it.

Honestly santa does not scar a child for life or anything else dramatic

Seriously. A lot of children are traumatized by Santa, it is a recognized phobia.

A recognised phobia? Who knew the trauma the magic of Christmas was actually causing some delicate little plants??

DD's 10 and still believes. She also believes in the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy. I'm wondering when she'll realise.

Who knew the trauma the magic of Christmas was actually causing some delicate little plants??

I know children who hate the idea of a stranger being in their house. When else would we describe that as magic?!

It's not a phobia as such but I do break into a cold sweat worrying about all the presents I'll buy as Santa.

My youngest wasn't happy about Santa coming in his room in the night. We compromised with leaving a polite note asking him Not to come upstairs please.
Less phobia more slight concern really.