to have just cried when DS told me this? (edited by MNHQ)

[ReallyNormalForNorfolk]

He's only just turned 7, and appears to have worked it all out for himself. Santa doesn't exist, does he mummy? It's just you and daddy isn't it? I honestly didn't know what to say. I don't like to lie exactly, and sort of changed the subject to how you can believe in things that you can't see - like love, different people's gods, etc. He then said religion was a load of rubbish and not true as he had never seen an angel come down from heaven. Fair dues, a rational analysis I guess, but I was hoping that this moment wouldn't be quite so soon.
He is in fact a very rational little boy, and I don't want to lie to him, and give him the time to make his own mind up - but I am sad to say I did shed a tear or two because it seemed like such a loss of innocence/watershed type growing up moment. I said "should we forget about xmas then?" No, he still wants the presents! I haven't confirmed or denied anything - just feel a bit awkward about it all -wwyd?

I haven't read the post your'e referring to but if one person's DC thinks Sanata like rich kids better than poor ones that's one child, it's not part of the Santa story

The post I was referring to was the lovely 3 year old who was able to spot the fundamental flaw about the "magic of Santa" namely if Santa was so magical why was the supermarket asking for presents to be contributng.

The whooshing sound you might be hearing is the point sailing over your head just in case you mistake it for Santa's sledge.

Lass

What are the embellishments other than the one instigated by Coca Cola? What magic exactly is there in blindly doing something which almost everybody else does?

From folklore, children’s fiction and family traditions.

I'm not sure what is so terrible about taking the credit for a present you have actually taken the trouble to choose, buy and wrap.

It’s just truthful. It is tradition, not entirely your own original idea to do this at Christmas.

Ds1 was 3. He announced it in the supermarket at the checkout. When the cashier laughed and said "don't be silly of course he exists" he said "Really, then why do they have those trolleys filled with toys for poor kids?" "why doesn't he go to them?" Andbpointes at the trolleys. She was speechless. I just mumbled something about not being able to find their houses

This is the post I was referring to. Well done that boy.

My D.C. was never into Santa delivering presents. From being tiny. We had to do a half way house and explain the traditional folklore and Saint accounts and explain some people like to imagine he actually, really, visits, in person, and not to spoil it for them.

This is the post I was referring to. Well done that boy.

That's nonsense! That's a situation badly handled by the parent!

Why does collecting gifts for kids living in poverty necessarily mean Santa doesn't go to them? It doesn't. It just means their parents can't afford to buy them stuff.

Unless you've told your DC that ALL presents come from Santa, in which case you've backed youself into a logical corner on that one!
Bit short sighted to make ALL presents from Santa IMO seeing as all the shops are full of gifts! But that's not a reason for the rest of us to not enjoy this lovely game.

I'm totally skint by the way. I'm in a difficult position of having spoiled the DC in the past, but DH is out of work and we have no idea how we're going to afford Christmas. My best idea so far is to buy good condition charity shop toys for the stockings. BUT - that doesn't mean I think others should not enjoy the game, or that I should stop playing it with my DC. Don't you remember how exciting Christmas was when you were little?

The presents going to underprivileged children is really in the spirit of Santa. How many people give donations to schemes like this when they might not have otherwise have thought of it? The Santa myths and Saint’s account is a real signposting to the idea of charitable giving,

So in that respect, those giftsn in the charity collection, can be attributed to Santa.

So in that respect, those giftsn in the charity collection, can be attributed to Santa Or are attributed to people who care and lots of advertising. I wouldn't go as far to say they are in any way connected in a 5 years olds belief that a character in a story is real.

I asked my parents outright aged 5, they told me the truth. I wasn't remotely upset and carried on "the magic" until adulthood. I cannot lie to my children, my 7 yr old really believes in Santa but if he ever asks me outright I'll tell him the truth. I don't think my 5 yr old has ever truly believed but he doesn't like the idea of Santa.

It's really not a big deal and you can still use your imagination and have a "magical" Christmas.

My kids were a lot younge when they figured it out and I noticed most kids by they second year in school had figured it out so around five. Your son is seven so that seems a reasonable age, if he wasn't able to figure that out that would imply his logic or questioning reality hadn't developed yet and a normal child develops their questioning skills around that age so it's normal af. Even kids that don't say anything have figured it out because they just naturally start realising that theres a reality and fantasy world and that they are not the same. Some kids know but choose to ignore that because it's fun or because they don't want to deal with reality. Hell some adults don't deal well with reality. But it doesn't mean it's rubbish just because it isn't real. All of our creative stories communal fantasies and assumptions and abstract concepts like money are not all rubbish. They are useful, for a Myriad of reasons from an interesting book to a moral metaphore to institutional social structures that really have no basis in reality but have a basis in te human mind. Being able to discern between the two is good but perhaps denying the relevance of non exist any things as rubbish is going a bit too far. What things might he throw in te rubbish pile if he learns to value only those things which are "real". His imaginary friends or his dreams of being an astronaut? Sometimes it's the unreal things which are more important to a person than the real things. And understanding unreal things and valuing them is important, otherwise he might turn into Richard Dawkins and just not understand the human condition which let's be honest is mostly cultured by it's unreal things than it's real things. The fact that very where across the globe moms and dads are buying presents and putting then under a tree as a surprise is magical enough. The symbol of that magic is visually represented by Santa. Ok so he's not a real man, just as god isn't a real man, and some of it isn't good, moms ad dads crying themselves to sleep over feeling a need for money to line a toy companies pockets with profit sucks, but there's a huge amount of good there too. And that goodness is real whether you can see it or if it has a red suite or climbs down a chimney or not. And the upside of understanding Santa is not real is realising that Krampus is not real either. Krampus is the German anti Santa who was the stick to santas carrot, the old do good and you'll get a present bribe had a strong cultural counterpoint in Krampus who will literally come like a devil and do all sorts of nasty fb you get on the naughty list. So at least you can be sure te monsters under his bed will no longer have such real terror to them.
I never cried I was delighted that my kid was smart.
And that I no longer had to buy two sets of presents! And that they were understanding the world around them competently and not just swallowing everything fed to them whole. When my kid was small about six we brought him to some religious thing just to get out of the house, and every time the "preacher" would say the word god my son would interject "if indeed he did exist" as a caviat! I was super proud of him. Not sure the blind followers of their faith were all that happy but then they didn't seem happy about much te real world had in store for them. Preferring their one true fantasy to dealing with the subtleties of reality and humanity. Tey prayed for the gays and my son and I had enough of their fantasy world which excluded so so many including even themselves unless they jumped through some naughty list escaping hoops. But we still do Christmas. And we do Santa, while noting the corporate greed and unnessisary acsessories of the newest console. But we still buy it, we just bear in mind that it needs a new controller not for software issues but out of profit based design. Once they are aware of things it's nice to see them realise that things an be different than we are told they must be. When my kids grow up they will drop a few million off their profits to provide their users with biodegradable packaging and generic connections and acsess pried ( obviously they are going to be games designers!) and if that's not a real spirit of Santa alive in a man I don't know what is!

every time the "preacher" would say the word god my son would interject "if indeed he did exist" as a caviat! I was super proud of him

But why would you be proud? Learning how to respect others is a lot more important than knowing if god exists, indeed taking the trouble to find out if the religion your disparaging even has a belief in a male god, rather than blindly deciding to disparage a particular monotheistic viewpoint.

That was actually really rude of your ds, mutha?! If you weren't one of the "blind followers" you should have had the grace to leave, rather than allow your precocious ds to sit there heckling. Ffs!

Muthafuzza how odd

As far as I'm concerned, no one can prove Santa definitely DOESN'T exist, and the same goes for unicorns and fairies.

princesscasino No but Pascal's wager would strongly go on the side of not believing for FC.

Don't Believe & Does Exists = extra presents for the kids.
Believe & Doesn't Exist = empty stocking, unhappy kids.

'It's a fun game to play' covers most eventualities in this house.

Or are attributed to people who care and lots of advertising. I wouldn't go as far to say they are in any way connected in a 5 years olds belief that a character in a story is real.

But the specific trading means that that the idea is more in the forefront of people’s minds. It came before the advertising. 5 years olds don’t need to believe in an actual physical Santa delivering presents for this. Each person who takes on the idea of charitable acts an gift giving to celebrate Christmas is collectively the ‘embodiment’ of Santa by acting as the Saint/traditional figurehead, like people carry out their manager’s or ‘director’s actions at work.

Tradition not trading. Autocorrect fail.

my granddaughter is almost 9 and still believes in santa

Each person who takes on the idea of charitable acts an gift giving to celebrate Christmas is collectively the ‘embodiment’ of Santa by acting as the Saint/traditional figurehead,

Quite. Surely the kind act is the reason for giving gifts? Not to reward/elicit good behaviour or because it’s supposedly magical how they get there? Those things don’t go hand in hand at all.

I am so sorry @Raisinisnottheonlyfruit we have been there/are there. We told them that we pay Santa for some gifts and "this year we can't afford to pay him very much. So, let's pick the thing that you want the most." Our children weren't disappointed. We had some reminiscing conversations so I had an idea of favorite traditions (stockings, peppermints). Mil helped. But truly, love is most important. Not things.

....when my daughter was 9 she kept trying to find her gifts. She kept asking and asking and asking, so eventually I said, ‘No love, mummy and daddy are Santa, I’m sorry’. Cue absolute hysterics - a complete meltdown. She was devastated and distraught. In amongst it all, she screamed at me ‘But what about the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny (I don’t think we have ever alluded to the Easter Bunny)? ‘Oh no, they’re real!’ I said in a moment of panic. She’s 12 now and just lost her last tooth. The tooth fairy gave her a very nice thank you present for all her baby teeth and we still don’t have anything to do with the Easter Bunny. However,as far as we are all concerned, they are real and we’re leaving it that way. Parenting is a mine field!

I’ve not acknowledged that FC isn’t real. DS20 keeps saying, with a laugh, “for gods sake, just say it”.

Stuff in the stockings were always from F.C, literally stocking fillers, big pressies under the tree we’re from us. I’m not going to let someone who’s not real to get all the credit!

I wish my 8 year old would give up the Santa thing. He keeps saying that we don’t have to spend that much at Christmas because Santa brings a lot of it. He has 2 older brothers who play along too. I think deep down he has his doubts.
As all 3 of my boys have such high expectations of Christmas and what gifts they want I’m always glad when they realise it’s mum and dad that have to pay.

People seem to make such a song and dance about not lying to their children that I wonder what went wrong in your childhoods to make you so uptight and dispassionate about it all.

Children love believing in magic, it's a big part of childhood and always has been. There really is nothing wrong with that. There's plenty of time to be skeptical and boring like half of you later in life.