to have just cried when DS told me this? (edited by MNHQ)

[ReallyNormalForNorfolk]

He's only just turned 7, and appears to have worked it all out for himself. Santa doesn't exist, does he mummy? It's just you and daddy isn't it? I honestly didn't know what to say. I don't like to lie exactly, and sort of changed the subject to how you can believe in things that you can't see - like love, different people's gods, etc. He then said religion was a load of rubbish and not true as he had never seen an angel come down from heaven. Fair dues, a rational analysis I guess, but I was hoping that this moment wouldn't be quite so soon.
He is in fact a very rational little boy, and I don't want to lie to him, and give him the time to make his own mind up - but I am sad to say I did shed a tear or two because it seemed like such a loss of innocence/watershed type growing up moment. I said "should we forget about xmas then?" No, he still wants the presents! I haven't confirmed or denied anything - just feel a bit awkward about it all -wwyd?

Titty, so when you read a story book to a child, do you add 'lie' at the end of each sentence?

As long as both the parent and the child know that all these things are stories, which we choose to 'make believe' about, there is no lie. I agree that the attempt to make it 'true', with all these 'end of belief is end of innocence' bizarreness, takes it all too far. But to say all fiction, of all kinds - from Peter Rabbit to Great Expectations - is simply 'a lie' is equally extreme.

They are customs and traditions which pass in any culture from one generation to the next. These often have morals, i suppose the reward of presents is for good behaviour.

Didn't your DS ever receive a Christmas present from you and his Dad? Why would you cancel Christmas for him just because he is now aware of the Santa Claus myth?
Explain how it is supposed to have started hence the secret from children.

What super little boy you have.
I'd been so proud lol
My little girl (not sure how old maybe 4 - 5 ) said she didn't want some strange man coming into her room in the middle of the night!
I couldn't have been happier. More self esteem at 4 than some grown women. Girl power. I quickly reassured her it was just daddy in a red suit - but not to the other children if they wanted to believe. She was happy with that.

Be aware your child isn't very gullible! I remember when my then eight year old son informed me that Father Christmas did not exist but he'd be expecting presents regardless!! It took my other son a lot longer to work out the mythical person was exactly that. They've grown up now, allegedly, and it hasn't stunted their development. Man up

Stories are fine. I’m not peddling a myth that rabbits actually wear blue coats and talk..........

Ds1 was 3. He announced it in the supermarket at the checkout. When the cashier laughed and said "don't be silly of course he exists" he said "Really, then why do they have those trolleys filled with toys for poor kids?" "why doesn't he go to them?" Andbpointes at the trolleys. She was speechless. I just mumbled something about not being able to find their houses.

He's 20 now but I still remind him. Ds2 believed for ages.

And pointed*

If I say something that isn’t true, it is a lie.

How else can it be described?

It’s not imagination, nor magic. It’s a lie, perpetuated by adults who encourage children to believe it without question. It’s a lie.

Santa can be described is terms of attributing the initial idea of giving gifts at Christmas to a particular character/figurehead/ legend/ myth. Instead of taking the whole credit for giving a gift at Christmas yourself. That is not a lie.The true magic is in the taking on the transformative power of this kind idea within the Zeitgeist. Embellishments and storytelling add to the atmosphere, wonder and enjoyment for a lot of people.

If he asked you outright, I don't understand why you wouldn't answer the question. At that point a fun make-believe becomes an actual lie. You can still say, 'Yes, mummy and daddy pretend to be Father Christmas, to make Christmas even more special and fun for you. Do you want to keep pretending this year?'

Santa can be described is terms of attributing the initial idea of giving gifts at Christmas to a particular character/figurehead/ legend/ myth. Instead of taking the whole credit for giving a gift at Christmas yourself. That is not a lie.The true magic is in the taking on the transformative power of this kind idea within the Zeitgeist. Embellishments and storytelling add to the atmosphere, wonder and enjoyment for a lot of people

What are the embellishments other than the one instigated by Coca Cola? What magic exactly is there in blindly doing something which almost everybody else does?

I'm not sure what is so terrible about taking the credit for a present you have actually taken the trouble to choose, buy and wrap.

Well done for raising an intelligent boy who's worked out that Santa isn't real at a perfectly appropriate age. Please don't try and convince him he's wrong.

Ds1 was 3. He announced it in the supermarket at the checkout. When the cashier laughed and said "don't be silly of course he exists" he said "Really, then why do they have those trolleys filled with toys for poor kids?" "why doesn't he go to them?" Andbpointes at the trolleys. She was speechless. I just mumbled something about not being able to find their houses

And well done him for spotting that horrible fundamental flaw in the magic of Santa. I would have been proud of him.

I admit we bowed to the social pressure of going along with this lie but Santa was not particularly generous in our house. Main present was from us- Santa didn't bring anything more than stocking fillers.

I can't remember ever believing in Father Christmas. I remember lying in bed pretending to be asleep to see if I could spot my dad coming in with presents. But obviously still went along with the traditions of hanging up stockings etc, as they are nice old traditions, fun stories and make-believe. Children are absolutely familiar with the idea of making things up - "Now I'm a princess and you're my dog" - and (certainly at 7) pretty good at distinguishing between made-up fun and stories and lies.

My kids are almost 18 and 20 and still get presents, not just from Santa but also from various TV stars and other jokey characters that we've come across that year. I've never told them "there is no Santa". If they suggest that the presents might actually not really be from the dog's fleas, then I deny it strongly. It's fun.

"Really, then why do they have those trolleys filled with toys for poor kids?" "why doesn't he go to them?" Out of the mouths of babes.

Ours believed until they were 10 but we have always gone large on the old fairytales. They also believed there was a little man in the piano hitting the keys until they were about 9.

DD is currently writing her dissertation on Welsh Mythology but her brothers seem relatively unscathed.

Ah, it's just a game, adults get fer too hung up about FC IMO! Stop being so adulty and try a bit harder to think like a child!

"should we forget about xmas then?"

This is exactly what I mean! Stop beign so literal!

Did you ever tell your child they're not allowed to play a pretend game because really they know it's not real? No? Well why does FC have to stop if they know really it's not true? Santa a lovely game that even all the grown ups get involved with.

I don't remember ever believing in Father Christmas. One of my early memories is overhearing other DC in reception talking about Santa and knowing he wasn't real!

But - sometimes I did think he was real again. My parents never admitted it either way. I remember one Christmas Eve trying really hard to stay up late enough to prove to myself it was my parents! Although I knew it wasn't real I still had a what if and played along.

And even when I knew for sure, I still really enjoyed it and it still felt magical. Christmas is magical when you're a child, whether FC is real or not!

I suspect my DS knows Santa isn't real. When he asks, I say "what do you think?" and "that's an interesting idea". I don't lie to him, I smile and be mysterious and turn it into a joke / game and he doesn't push it. If it seemed really important to him to hear it from me, I'd fess up, but we're not there yet.

I'd do your DS a stocking, and if he says it's from you, smille and say "what an interesting theory" and walk away!

Please don't feel awkward. Remember it's meant to be a fun game, you've just moved up a level! The loss of innocence stuff is nonsense, honestly. He's still a child with a sense of wonder about the world.

Great he's got religion sussed btw, I'd be proud of him for that!

My grandson worked out there was no Santa when he was 5! Using logic

I never believed in FC as a child, but loved Christmas. I think some people are too obsessed about trying to create a Disney type Christmas. I have read about secondary school children on MN who apparently "believe". No way

I think FC is more believable than in my day. It's quite plausible really, as long as he has enough elves. Bit like Amazon on their busiest day

Titty, regarding your snarky reply. If you read my first reply to this post you would’ve seen that I taught my boy about st Nicholas, was he started asking about Santa. No “lies” there. I mean really. And actually, he’s chosen to carry on “believing”, which I find a bit daft but it just goes to show that Santa is a big part of Christmas, whether you like it or not.

"Really, then why do they have those trolleys filled with toys for poor kids?" "why doesn't he go to them?"

The stories people have must be very different to what I imagine stories of FC to be if that's a reason for the non-existence, it's simply answered by lots of things such as It's nice to get presents from people who love you, some people haven't the money, so the shop collects to help those aunts, uncles, friends, families who can't afford it still do something nice for their kids. FC is only incompatible with that story if ALL presents are from FC, if he is, then you could do with Some of the kids are on the naughty list, people don't think it's fair their left out completely, so the shop collects some presents for them.

Like cantkeepaway I don't understand how you can do the story of FC any different from a million and one other stories, and given that most of the other stories are things you would not really want you kid believing in (monsters under the bed, ghosts, vampires, flesh eating giants, witches killing children etc.) then obviously they would quickly realise it's a story.

It being a story doesn't take away any magic, and visiting an obviously dressed up man as FC doesn't do anything to deny the existence of FC, than meeting a dressed up ghost or witch on Halloween proves the non-existence of those.

I of course believe all children have FC in the same class of things as elves, tooth fairy, ghosts, witches, giants, and other myths, and I think they believe of them as stories. And like just about everyone, they love stories, get invested in stories and enjoy them, that is the belief. It's not an actual Is FC real? question at all.

Santa a lovely game that even all the grown ups get involved with

I'm with hmmmm's three year old on this.What is "lovely" about perpetuating the lie that Santa likes the children of better off parents more than the children of the poor?

I did quite well out of Santa when I was little so I am not saying this out of bitter experience.As an adult and a parent I find the over investment some adults have in the "magic of Santa" perplexing.

My son was only 5 years when he told me there was no such thing as Santa. He gave me lots of reasons why Santa didn't exist and I couldn't lie to him. I was a bit sad at the time. There are families out there who have never let their children believe.

As an adult and a parent I find the over investment some adults have in the "magic of Santa" perplexing.

I'm with you there. Some people go way over the top and being upset at an imagined loss of innocence when your child no longer believes is veering in that direction (sorry OP!)

But your other comment is totally OTT in the other direction!

What is "lovely" about perpetuating the lie that Santa likes the children of better off parents more than the children of the poor?

How is giving your DC some gifts and saying they're from Santa perpetuating that idea FFS? Who's child knows what other DC even get?

My DC assume DC whose parents have no money still get Santa presents. They would be shocked to hear otherwise.

I haven't read the post your'e referring to but if one person's DC thinks Sanata like rich kids better than poor ones that's one child, it's not part of the Santa story.