To think we cannot afford a second baby :(

[winkletwinkletoes]

Currently feeling sad

Really want another baby in the next year or so. Have a 5 1/2 year old.

We both work full time. Joint income
Of around £2600 after tax. Our bills equate to about £2000 due to just buying a first house with eye watering interest rate

Realistically how can we afford another child if the childcare would be £500-£600 a month.

Got no family who can help... well not willing to help. Obviously long term we want a good quality of life and I can't see us being able to have both.

Can it be done or no???

Why is she saving the state a load of money? Yes they may pay childcare if she worked but that's it. Not really a huge saving compared to what a non worker gets in benefits.

The OP has a point but needs to focus on the positives. You own a home, have a child and a nice life. Your child's outcomes will naturally be higher because they are not being raised on benefits and their view of the world now will affect their future.

Do you mean joint income of 26,000 or 26,000 each? I had income of £30,000 and child tax credits still paid for 70% of my childcare (a huge amount per month), even though I earned way too much for 'working tax credits' . It is worth claiming rather than just trusting the calculator.... just to see see what happens..so many strange elements to tax credits. Even the CAB told me I earned too much, so I missed out for 18 months until rang HMRC to check something else and asked about childcare. Each dependant child you have bumps up your entitlement so as a pp said, if you find you aren't eligible now, you might be with two.

Then there are Childcare Vouchers, or probably better for you, the new scheme about to come in where you get (I think) 20% of childcare payments made/refunded by the gov't somehow. Plus some areas have free nursery places for 2 year olds (think this is very low income though). There are also 30 hour free places for almost all three and four year olds. This is all much more generous than it has ever been for previous generations.

I would not let worry about this put you off. Don't think of the long haul in costs until they reach 5/statutory school age...break it down into what it would actually be each year with the various age related schemes. Hopefully it should be a lot more manageable.

I also found that maternity leave was quite a saving with second or third child as though on half pay, less tax and NI made it seem more, plus I was saving on after-school club for older DC. And home-cooking etc, less fuel on commuting, more time to look for cheaper deals on bills etc all helped.

£1200 on bills?

You're definitely spending unnecessarily.

I am good with money...
bills include
Car tax x 2
Insurance x 2
Car finance £130 pre mortgage so I'm stuck with it until I figure out what to do.
Phone bills x2 which we're looking at reducing when I renew next year,

Council tax, water,
gas and electric I only pay £60pm including boiler cover!!!

Sky with internet £45!! Good deal tbh and before anyone says I need the internet because I work at home at odd occasion.

Policies that come with owning a home £30odd

Petrol x2

I only spend £200 per month on food via aldi and butchers... don't quite like Sainsbury's overpriced and it tastes like shit.

Then i had a sofa payment and wardrobe payment which will be done next year.

So all in all adds up to give or take £2000.

So glamourous isn't it sandsnake????

Disposable income is fine as we stand.

Oh and battleax... what does one do for a living yourself???

Hi,
Does your partner want another baby?if he feels its too much then maybe wait a while as having another baby with all the exhaustion and expense when only one party wanted a baby can be extremely difficult on the relationship.
If you both really want a baby,go visit an independent financial advisor and see what she or he suggests once they've worked out a future 're mortgage,and the benefits,free child care allowance etc.they may say to give it 24 months which would give you time to save up here and there so you're completely ready.
Plus ask mil how much she would be prepared to help out.
Good luck,I really hope everything works out for you.💜

Saving the state the cost of caring for a severely disabled child.

Why is she saving the state a load of money?

a recidential place for my DD would be 100k+ annually. I can assure you that I get a fair bit less in support.

And nobody is paying for childcare - in fact there is no childcare for my child. That is reason I was forced out if work.

gosh, there are some right cunts about tonight. I hope your partners or children never have an illness or an accident which renders them disabled and in need of 24/7 hour care.

Checkout childcare help because you may we’ll be eligible for help with WTC even if you aren’t now as the thresholds rise with an extra child. I think if you really wanted to you could by dropping hours etc.

Oh and battleax... what does one do for a living yourself???

Nothing where I hold colleagues or those I work with in contempt.

Or if you're angling after financial status, we're what you'd call comfortable.

You really need to raise your eyes (and your ethics) a bit.

Oh and where did I bash disability?? Or people who cannot work through Illness. Funnily enough I have two family members who are seriously ill and rely on their money. And they get so ashamed and I tell them that shouldn't be because through no fault of their own they can't go out and work.

They are there for those who need... so stop jumping onto something that was never written aimed at you.

My gripe is people who choose not to work where people who go out and work and have to find childcare get hit hardest.

Not a cow... just being realistic. The government sucks.

Most of the "expense" for us admittedly is that it would have been impossible for us both to maintain our careers around the DC once they started school (nursery is 51 weeks a year whereas school is 38) so our household took a ~£25k hit when I dropped to school-friendly working pattern. That in theory is a temporary requirement, mind too.

Our child-related bills would include:

• fucking shoes. School shoes, PE shoes, football boots, astro boots, weekend trainers, wellies, crocs. Multiple times a year. VAT applies once they're in "adult" sizes (except school shoes) even if they're seven years old. And football is a cheap hobby.

• sports subs. Football is cheaper than most things but once you factor in fuel costs for away matches it ends up feeling expensive.

• clothes. Waterproofs that are actually waterproof. Enough school uniform so you don't have to do laundry every day even if they've had outside playtime and painting and drawn on themselves with board marker. Weekend/holiday clothes. When they get old enough not to ruin clothes with mud/rips/food they start to care what the clothes look like. No more casual nearly-new or supermarket.

• food. Merciful heavens. Where do they put it?! My 9yo can eat a meal as a snack, then eat a big dinner And of course you can fill them up with cheap crap but more realistically it needs to be good protein and fruit&vegetables so you're spending stupid money at the supermarket.

• incidental school costs. Music lessons, after school clubs, dinner money, fundraising events. Uniform is roughly predictable but particularly secondary uniform is eye-wateringly expensive and it goes missing all too often. Schools are hugely underfunded so you keep drip drip dripping money in. And the trips! The price of a family holiday for a few days of caving in Wales.

But crucially ...

A house big enough to fit them in (not the neat little flat we started off in) and the utilities to run it. Active children need frequent washing and their stuff need laundering.

A car big enough to fit them in with all their stuff and long legs (bye bye lovely Focus, hello seven-seater with rear camera because I can't see past pfb's head in the mirror) and the fuel to run it.

Obviously a lot of the expense is optional, and if you say no to everything then it's cheaper, but with the life we've chosen to give our children those are the expenses we bear. We don't do fancy holidays or theme park days out or branded groceries, let alone private school fees, but if you go down that road then your children keep getting more expensive too!

If your monthly household income is about £2600 then you earn high 30s presumably? In which case, with two children, yes you would get some childcare help. I quite understand not wanting to risk reliance on any state help, but for all UCs many faults, it is pretty big on helping people with childcare costs.

Also if your sofa and wardrobe payments will be finished next year, that's presumably going to mean that even if you get pregnant tonight, they'll be finished or very close to it by the time you go on ML? You're also renewing your phone contracts next year, and there's no way you couldn't get that down to less than £30 a month between you unless you're about to drip feed that you phone Australia a lot. And how long did you sign up to the car thing for? It sounds to me like you could reduce your expenses quite a bit in the next 12-18 months.

Let me clarify... our joint income per month is £2600.00. Not annually of 26k

OK, I was giving you advice as if you were on £26000pa.
At £26000pa, your OP would have made more sense tbh..That would have been just on the cusp of not getting tax credits...possible that some families on benefits would have more disposable income...plausible that you would struggle to afford a baby.

At £2600 per month- I don't know what your problem is.

Secondly, I am being negative. But, for example I work with families who have kids left right and centre and don't care... why? Because they know they can claim benefits and that will be fine as they don't work.

Fine is relative- they will be considerably worse off than you. All of them will be.

I feel pissed that I actually have to
Stop and think about doing so because I can't afford it because I am working and because I choose to want both a career and children. Some may say you can't have both but I want to try to

Your logic is all over the shop here. They can have as many kids as they want, it doesn't matter to them. Whereas I^ want to work.
Guess what- wanting nice things isn't a weird personality quirk that only you have. Most people want a job. Most people wnat a family. Most women struggle to find their way through that.
Your clients are not simpletons who don't know enough to want a career. They are people with limited options who are possibly just resigned to their circumstances.

You have more options than them and they are not the cause of your problems.

*And I bought a house because I want something to leave my kids. Why pay money into rented housing when I can buy my own house hmm and I don't want to live in a council house.

I came from a crappy upbringing and I always vowed to give my children better than what I had.*

And again. All your saying here is that you like nice things. Everyone likes nice things. People without the nice things you have- also feel the way you do about nice things. Its not a special attribute you should expect applause for.

I'm being a bit hard on you here OP, but honestly, you are doing OK. Your income is alright and will rise when your DH is qualified. You own a house which will hopefully rise in value.
In your situation I would just have that second kid.
Or, i don't know, don't have a second kid- if the drop in your standard of living would be too much for you.
But don't pretend you have no choices because you do.

My gripe is people who choose not to work where people who go out and work and have to find childcare get hit hardest.

Not a cow... just being realistic. The government sucks.

This government? The current "bathe the peasants in gold leaf" administration?

What is it you think the poorest are being lavished with exactly? Food bank vouchers?

We are in the same boat and have decided to stick at 1 so we can provide him with nice things rather than be broke forever.

Still sad though

OP I still don't get how those things add up to 2000??? There must be other outgoings???

Car tax x 2 50?
Insurance x 2 80?
Car finance £130

Phone bills x2 £60?

Council tax, water,£200?
gas and electric I only pay £60pm

Sky with internet £45!!

Policies that come with owning a home £30odd

Petrol x2 £200?

I only spend £200 per month on food

Then i had a sofa payment and wardrobe payment which will be done next year.£100?

We have a very similar take home amount to you and 2 in childcare. We put away a certain amount each month to pay for mortgage and bills. We both use salary sacrifice to pay for childcare. We do fine. I can only share how we live in case it helps, and I notice what we do differently to others sometimes:

only run one second hand car (I realise this may not be an option for you)
no tv
we have one computer we all share for internet/ tv/ work etc. No devices
we don't eat meat
do not own a tumble dryer or dishwasher
hardly ever go out (we can't anyway with 2 small kids and no 'help')
use charity shops and libraries

that's all I can think of. Maybe you do this stuff too, but I notice I 'go without' a lot of things that many consider essential. It's an attitude thing, and I think carefully before spending.

Yes please DON'T do your masters. I'm assuming you are family support or similar and thinking of retraining to do Social work.

So, OP, you work with people who are so screwed up that they abuse their own children, probably have no skills that would make them employable anyway (would you want to employ them?...), and who do not have anything to pass on to their children except emotional and possibly physical harm, and you are jealous of them for being better off than you?

I understand that this is a sensible way of approaching life and that this is a painful reality....
but I was left with 4 DC on my own with no income other than some benefits and my full time but only just over min wage job.This comes to less than your household income. I have no debts, we live very very frugally but we are ok and whilst I wish I could give my DC more, I can't and they understand this. They work hard at school and are (mostly) lovely to be around.
It's a question of balance and what you are prepared to give up for something you would like .

Good luck, I hope you make peace with your choice, whichever way you go.

Well put roundaboutthetown

I work in welfare rights and once worked in an office full of the most closed minded, bitchy women who never missed an opportunity to have a make a snide little remark about how much claimants were getting or which clients couldn't be bothered to work.

The service took a funding cut and ew were looking at redundancy. All of a sudden those same people were saying "Oh I'm not going to sign on. I couldn't handle it"

When it came down to it- they all knew how tough it is really.

OP, you did not bash disability but you did bash people on benefits with more than one child. Incidentally, this also includes those who had to give up work due to illness/disability themselves and those who are caring. This really isn't that hard to understand, is it?

also, I think you are in the wrong job. your posts are so shallow. I shudder when I image you are there to give some form of support to those you are slagging off.

If you really seriously want to know how to afford it, post all your outgoings (all of them, even the irregular stuff you spend on), and your partner's prospects for increasing his income. You'll get good advice.

I think you could afford DC2. But equally you have decided to buy a house when your DP is not earning much. Those were your choices. Nothing unfair about having choices!

Well you could cut out the Sky, you don't need that. Out internet is minimal every month.

Same with phones - DH and I have our own phones and pay £7 each per month for SIM only. Plenty of minutes, texts, data.

Would one car be a possibility or not?

Oh, and I think you may be better to find a new career where you don't have such a dislike for the people you 'support'.

Wellandtruely- why not do the masters?? I have been thinking about it for ages. Undecided yet.

No squirrels- where is the best place to post this?? Yes I agree it was my choice. However, do sometimes feel like I made wrong choices.

And I'm not closed minded, jealous or any of that. I feel for them... I feel sorry for kids stuck in that cycle. How would most react when your trying to get parents into work and several comments from different families were

"Fuck that... what's the point in working. I'm worse off working than I am staying at home. Probably have more money than you do... ha ha." What would your reaction be ... oh ok your such a nice man with great ethics and contribute so well to society.

Cause sorry it really narked me