To not take DD on holiday

[Strawberryshortcake40]

Have posted about DD before. She is unwell with an eating disorder, it has been over two years now. Life is pretty hellish.

A couple of months ago she seemed to be making progress, it was thought it would be good to give her something to aim for. So a holiday was booked for her, her younger sister and me.

Last month she started getting very manipulative about it all. Saying what her DS could do/not do on holiday, how she wasn't going to keep to our plans etc. Sure enough she had lost weight (her behaviour is a sign). I told her if she lost more weight she could not go. She rallied slightly. Her therapist said if she lost more weight she shouldn't go.

Well with a week to go, she's lost almost a kg in a week. So now WTF do I do? She really isn't well enough to go but is insistent I will "give in and take her".

Her little sister will be devastated not to go away and frankly she needs a break, she cries most evenings before bed at how life is here and it's soul destroying to see how her childhood is being wrecked by this.

But I feel v v sad at the thought of not taking DD who this was all for in the first place, but if I take her it will literally be a whole week of us being dictated to by her illness.

AIBU to not take her??

I was thinking about your situation in the night OP. I am struck that a number of “solutions” involve setting rules and boundaries.

Yet, CBT and other therapy approaches will seek to challenge DDs tendencies to set, and live by, a set of rules. It seems counterintuitive (to me) to replace one set of rules with another.

Most parents ease into a fewer rules, more questions, phase with their teenagers. Even with the additional challenges of anorexia, which mustn’t be underestimated, a broadly similar approach could prevent you and your DD backing yourselves into your respective corners.

In this situation can you model some flexible thinking? I am sure you do this anyway, but continue to demonstrate that you are prepared to break some rules when there is a benefit to it? And when DD tries to set conditions, which she surely will, challenge her, not by opposing her, but by exploring her statement further and making sure she has opportunities to back away from her position.

The how to talk to teenagers book, often recommended on these boards may give you some strategies.

I agree that you are between a rock and a hard place, but overall DD needs to believe that you have her back (you clearly do) and I don’t think she should be punished. The consequences of doing so are, IMHO much darker.

Can I also recommend posting in relationships? The posters there will give you wise and straightforward advice about ex H / DD’s father which could be helpful to both of you.

Sending hugs, you are doing great BTW

strawberryshortcake40 what your wrote above about your daughters illnss was so spot on.so on point in reply to the idiotic "monster" comments. its shows such understanding of the illness in her. this is her tumour or her kidney deseaseas.its just as life changing its just as "not her" it changes her body and her emotions and her very behaviour. and you get that. some paretns don't.
I'm so sorry you in this situation. could you do what others have said and if she is safe enough to come the you explain to her that what shes has done by losing weight isn't ever acceptable but you wont allow for her illness to dicate her sisters good times.and so you will all go on the holiday but its isn't her reward or trip it is to save sister.

I no your dd must be suffering and for a while there might be sadness in her or unhappiness but one day I promise you she will too grapple what is going on. and for a while shemmight hold onto some sort of hate or resentment towards her sister.but she will grow through it.
with ours for a while it destroyed the relationship of the sibling.but he grew up and suddenly clicked that this is my sister and shes really fucking ill and he has never been a better support.there friendship grows each day.and we never thought we would see it happen. and so too were our huge fears of him being destroyed by the illness.i truly believe he is the man he is because of the empathy and strength and knowledge he now holds of such things.
what we did have with him though is people that could help and either sit with dd so we could then go off with him or people to take him out.are there any of her mates from school. or some parents groups.even church where you could ask or help either in doing something just the two of you with support at home for your ille daughter or people who can get your other dd out and about and still have fun.
keep talking to her two. with our ds he didn't understand sometimes the anger and upset he held inside over his ds.so giving him a place to just vent that for us and let it go then let it be was imensly helpful.it meant he wasn't alonenor thinking his feeling of shitness weren't valid.
I'm sure when a person has cancer or heart desease and it becomes fatal or gets really bad that family member feel despair and heartache just like with the eating disorder.
and remember too that with other illness the siblings have to seemingly not get the attention they deserve.but it sometimes feel worse with the eating disorder because of the way that manifest in the family. but as long as she know she is loved and that she is just as important and thre isn't anything you wouldn't not do for eother child she will be ok.
love will see you all through this.
sometimes it can be the only things left. but its the strongest thing in the world.it holds all pain it holds all the tough time and it ploughs through it.love it really will help.and you seem to have so much of that that your giving.
I'm so sorry for this happening to you.
have you talked about the simple things you could do with dc.like get her to choose a move and order in a takeout or something.let your older daughter feel included but also that if she kicked off it wouldn't wreck your night.
or on random times asking you younger one if she wanted to go for a quick walk.or come to do grocery shopping with you.write some poems. or does she do any arts. just adding those really simple things in to rbring it all back to what you all share and that the care for eacohter and the keeping of each of you in ur hearts.
your so brave hun.it can get better.it bloody can I promise you.
do you love anything yourself. is there anything you can do.wirting reading,music that also keeps you sane.

What a beautiful post kateandme - I hope the OP hasn't hidden the thread already as it's so good to hear from the parents perspective and with so much hope and love too.

And Butteredparsn1ps - the rules are for the anorexia. It's really like there is a split in the thinking. The healthy side wants to get better but the eating disorder distorts the thinking and is intent on staying put. The problem is that the eating disorder is so strong within a person. I literally felt like I would die to let it go and it would destroy me and yet logically I could see that the eating disorder was going to kill me anyway. The boundaries being so strict are purely for the eating disordered side which gives the healthy side that extra incentive to be in control. The CBT therapy etc and new ways of thinking which are more healthy happen alongside the seemingly draconian strict boundaries for the eating disorder.

It's interesting that most of the posters saying to leave DD1 behind are the ones who have suffered themselves from anorexia. As a parent though, I'd hate to be in that position and can imagine if it was one of my daughters and there was a chance of her getting worse when I was away etc, it would go against every parenting instinct to protect them and keep them safe. The fact the therapists have said to leave her behind though... at the end of the day it's OP's decision and I just hope this thread as a whole has been more helpful and supportive than made things more difficult.

I don't think the poster who said to toughen up meant you need to toughen up emotionally strawberryshortcake40 though. The strength needed to keep going and working as hard as you are to try to do the best thing without falling apart yourself is incredible.

Whatever you decide, you yourself have to be completely comfortable with the decision as whatever happens, you don't want to live with regrets. Here us posters are far away from you and it's easy to be so certain from behind a keyboard. They're just opinions - you need to do what feels right for you

Some people wont understand, and will only comment on how this is affecting younand your other dd.
I can understand your oldest not wanting to be involved. It must have been hard for her to, and she may not want to be drawn back into it.
It is so hard on you though, and your youngest.
From everything on here you are such a great mom, don't forget that.
Everything you are doing you are doing for them.
You two do need a break though, if you really dont think it will be this, you do need one soon x

Strawberry. I hope that you do come to a decision soon and that you are able to stick to it.

It is really important for DD1 that she sees that you have firm boundaries. I know its hard to read but as others have said you need to stop falling over yourself to give the illness what it craves.

you have to develop an almost unbelievably rigid routine with no holes in it and no wriggle room. it needs to be simple clear transparent and utterly kept to 100%.

I really think reading all of your posts that you honestly don't have the strength for this at the moment and this is why I think you need to go away with DD2 and leave DD1 at home.

take her with you and it will be a disaster because you will have gone back on your decision and the ed will know it and every boundary will be pushed.

don't let DD2 down again - please don't. I really feel for her and how disappointed she will be.

I think Butteredparsnip's post was good IF the OP had only 1 DD. But she doesn't, she has 2.
All Strawberry's energy is focused on here DD1 already and trying to find a way to help her win the battle against the AN. DD2 is, perforce, pushed into the background. Continuing to always prioritise DD1 is not going to help DD2. Taking DD1 on the holiday with them is likely to be further prioritising of DD1 for the duration of the holiday, and once again, DD2 bears the brunt of it.

I'm not saying this for Strawberry, she knows this already.

Actually, I take it back - I don't think it was that good even for DD1 because it is failing to understand that the boundaries are necessary to help her push back against an illness that is already controlling her.
This isn't normal teen stuff and shouldn't be treated as such.

I thought I would update this although I'm not sure that's the done thing in AIBU. But seemed only fair when so many have shared personal experiences of the illness.

I've decided to take DD with us. And before I'm met with a chorus of groans I will explain my reasoning!

DD has been sliding with behaviour and then weight, for the past month. With the help of a good friend i met on here long ago we figured out a timeline.

Just over a month ago was the issue with her dad. It wasn't a small thing. He hurt her little sister and was verbally abusive to her until I got to them and took them home (threatening him with the police to do so). After that he phoned and turned up continuously. It hasn't been a nice time. My attention was somewhat sidelined by helping youngest DD deal with that.

A few days after DD was due to see her private therapist. He cancelled and couldn't see her again until recently. She has seen him for 2 years so a close bond was there. He didn't return her emails (and had previously). I think she probably felt rejected? Definitely like she had nobody to talk to.

It seems that about the same time she struck up a new friendship at school. Only I found out last week that the girl has recently been diagnosed anorexic. A triggeri presume.

So whilst there is no real excuse I can't help seeing some kind of correlation.

The more I think about it the more let down I feel from camhs and their sudden about turn of her dad. I expect she is confused too.

Which brings me into the last part of it. He's made it clear he won't have her. He won't discuss any of it apart from a few PA comments about me leaving her if I can't cope.

So what all this has shown me is I need to start getting some support systems in place. which I will do when we get home.

Rules are in place for the holiday. Any more suggestions for those gratefully received. We have talked about meals and triggers etc etc.

That was so long sorry!!

I think you are doing the right thing. I hope you all have an amazing holiday together.

Well done for making a decision, I hope it all goes well. It may be the treat you were hoping for! Good luck!

Just wanted to say you are an amazing mum and to hope you have a lovely holiday together and to be able to move forward! I can't even begin to understand my child having an eating disorder and the ripple effect it has on everyone else but I know how hard it is to be a mum!! Take care of yourself OP 💐

To be honest I think that's all you can do now, since there is no one you can safely leave DD1 with.

No, there won't be any groans from me - but I do hope that you find some time to give DD2 the holiday she deserves and needs, even if DD1 starts to kick off. I don't know how exactly, but I hope you manage it!

When you get back, I think you should consider making CAMHS aware of the abuse of your DD2 - I doubt they'd consider him an appropriate carer for DD1 in future under those circs (unless they're already aware and have just swept that under the carpet!)

Best of luck - hope it works out and you have a decent holiday

Thumbwitches - camhs know! That is the whole concern of mine. While I am all for DD staying with someone who is strict (although he isn't!) I don't think she should stay with someone who can't control their temper.

I plan to ask to change camhs therapist when we return.

No advice in the AN point of view.
But can I say you are an absolutely fantastic mum! So much awareness of the needs and emotions of both your dds and how things can have affected them.

I hope the AN will not impact too much on the trip and yoUr dd2 will enjoy herself.

I fully agree about the need for a support system. We all need one. But you probably even more.

I agree with Thumbs there isn’t really any option other than taking her it seems but hopefully with boundaries and rules in place the holiday should go well. As long as she knows she isn’t being rewarded it should be fine and there will be no groans from me. I do second making sure somehow that D2 has a wonderful holiday and you can make some time for something special for her. She needs this.

Good luck and I hope all goes well. You never know, this could be a turning point.

I was afraid this would be the outcome, but felt it was going this way from the start. Rods and backs. Good luck.

Im glad you've been able to reach a definite decision, hope that lifts some of the stress for you

Here's hoping it goes well. And updates always very welcome, I'll be thinking of you.

I think in this situation you've made the right decision for the situation you've found yourself in.

I hope the holiday goes well for you all.
An update afterwards would be useful for others going through similar in future.

I think you are doing the right thing. It will be hard but any of the options was going to be hard.

But it could also be a catalyst for recovery.

Your X sounds like a complete nightmare. You definitely could not have left her with him.

I would really up the positivity factor now. You're on holiday! To a happy place and sunshine and fun. And you are all going to have lots of fun and laughs. Even something silly like you all write a little list (private or not) with the things you don't want to have to think about while you are away - school, crappy weather, your X and the stresses, AN - and you all put them in a bin at the airport leaving them behind.

I really hope it all works and both your dds have a great time. And obv if they do you will.

I've not posted on this thread before OP but have been following it.

I didn't think you should take your older DD to start with, but with your update I can completely understand why you are.

It's all too easy for us to judge when only you are in receipt of all the facts.

I hope you all have a good time. I'm very relieved for DD2 that she is going on holiday

Please do update us to let us know how it goes

I think that was your only option and hopefully the change of environment will mean that you will all have a good time.
Make it clear from the word go that you will be doing some rides/things that not everyone will want to go on but that is how it will be, and that she doesn't need to do more than maintain. Then expect the worst but hope for the best.

When do you fly? Will be thinking of you and keeping fingers crossed that the good times outweigh the bad.

Wow @Strawberryshortcake40 I want to firstly say congrats for hanging in there for both when others have crumbled to less. Cruel to be kind can be a cure. Not all illnesses require 24 care and medicine - addiction and eating disorders are so very similar that sometimes a dollop of reality is the final deal breaker. She needs something that makes her realise life won’t pander to her, she gets out of it what she puts in. A bad mum is one who doesn’t care enough to give it this much thought in the first place, not the one trying her best to support both children. Love them and keep going with your plan is my opinion. Give the best support you can but you can’t make her make the right decisions. Is she realises you’re really going this will shock her but tell her how much it hurts you to do it but she has to understand how serious it is that she gets better and that’s all you want for her. And that she has to think of the rest of her family the way they all have for her. Good luck OP x

I think that you have to take DD2 for her sake and there are no other options but to take DD1. So in that sense I think you have made the only choice you could

If you completely took the focus off food and AN would it help I wonder? Tell her you are all going to try to forget that she has AN. Her 'friend' is not coming on holiday. (I think calling AN a friend is poss not good either - def more enemy .). Maybe lighten the atmosphere by joking that frenemy doesn't have a passport so is being left behind. Have a conversation about making this holiday the opposite of that one with your X. You can all eat what you like when you like. Don't pressure her to eat. And don't praise her either. Just ask if she is enjoying it. Does it taste good. Lots of praise for stuff not related to food.

I like this advice from cider

I feel so sorry for all of you involved in this, there really is no good answer here while the ED is punishing all of you.

I do think that your insights and other posters comments on the expensive treat food needing to be dialled back are important though, could you maybe allocate an amount of money every week for "treat food" for each of you? It definitely doesnt sound right that she has total control over the family budget for this, her ED is letting her wave about a LOT of power and control right now and it feels dangerous to let her be in a position where letting go of her ED would result in a "demotion" in power back to "child".