To not take DD on holiday

[Strawberryshortcake40]

Have posted about DD before. She is unwell with an eating disorder, it has been over two years now. Life is pretty hellish.

A couple of months ago she seemed to be making progress, it was thought it would be good to give her something to aim for. So a holiday was booked for her, her younger sister and me.

Last month she started getting very manipulative about it all. Saying what her DS could do/not do on holiday, how she wasn't going to keep to our plans etc. Sure enough she had lost weight (her behaviour is a sign). I told her if she lost more weight she could not go. She rallied slightly. Her therapist said if she lost more weight she shouldn't go.

Well with a week to go, she's lost almost a kg in a week. So now WTF do I do? She really isn't well enough to go but is insistent I will "give in and take her".

Her little sister will be devastated not to go away and frankly she needs a break, she cries most evenings before bed at how life is here and it's soul destroying to see how her childhood is being wrecked by this.

But I feel v v sad at the thought of not taking DD who this was all for in the first place, but if I take her it will literally be a whole week of us being dictated to by her illness.

AIBU to not take her??

strawberryshortcake40 - only trying to help. The program I was on was in-patient and had a higher recovery rate than 30%. Not all programs are weight based for entry either especially if the eating disorder is multi-compulsive and combined with suicide attempts etc. It just didn't sound from your posts like treatment at home is working for you, your daughter or your youngest so surely it's worth considering alternatives but if you've explored already and found there is none then I guess you're a bit stuck. Really hope you all come out the other side of this...

Don't blame your other DD, it's to only much to expect to deal with at such a young age.

Oh OP PLEASE read MerryMuppet’s posts over again.

I have read them! And I'm very grateful for her insight into it. Unfortunately different areas have different strategies, and things have changed even in the two years my DD has been ill. The local ED unit has now closed, there are no day units and hospital places are very rare indeed. This is the practicalities of it.

Read ALL of her posts again.
She and several of us are saying you’ve got to stop panicking about whether your actions are going to make your DD worse. Stop enabling her to keep the control.
You can’t save her. Only she can do that.
You can, at this stage, still save yourself and your other daughter.

I don’t think you want to hear that viewpoint though sadly, so I wish you all well :(

Where is your mind at now op, regarding taking her or cancelling?

Bless you. Whatever you decide won't be a wrong one.

My heart breaks for you. I had a close friend at university who suffered terribly. I struggled with the whole thing as her parents were a long way away and I was quite heavily involved. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you and your family. I know you said older dd can't help but might she agree to be on call if middle dd stayed with your elderly grandparents? If you pleaded with her? If not and there's really no care option then I think I'd go with her rather than not at all.

The lack of provision in care is terrible.

I do hope you can go, somehow.

I agree venusflytwat (fab user name btw)...

Given you've been with an emotionally abusive man strawberryshortcake40, I think the idea that you're partly enabling her anorexia when you've been sacrificing so much and trying so hard to help her is going to be a really hard idea to take on board without carrying guilt with it. The guilt is irrational and something you shouldn't be feeling at all as you've done nothing wrong as you have all the right intentions. You really don't need to be beating yourself up at all about anything. You're being a fantastic Mum and Anorexia is so devious and cunning that it's hard to see clearly what's happening with the family dynamics and what's healthy and what's not, what's the Eating Disorder and what's not. The crucial thing though now is to realise it is happening and to try to stop enabling the anorexia.

Your dd may feel out of control of the anorexia but realising she always has choices to make (no matter how strong the compulsion to give in to the anorexic behaviours) and those choices carry consequences is crucial to her recovery. She's been in recovery for a while before so she can do it. It may be that she's been looking forward to the holiday and may be feeling like she doesn't really deserve it or maybe some other stressful things have been going on but something has triggered her anorexic behaviours to start to show themselves again to sabotage her chance to go on holiday with you. Self sabotage is very usual with eating disorders. It also gives the anorexia chance to have a test of those boundaries to see if it can get a hold again as life feels bizarrely safer with the eating disorder than without it and there will often be the temptation to go back to it.

The worst thing you can do for the anorexia is to let her go on holiday when she was told if she dropped weight she wouldn't be able to go. There will be chances later to try again and maybe next time she'll know that if she drops weight she won't go so that will give her healthy side enough ammunition against the anorexia to fight it to be healthy enough to go on holiday with you.

A compromise would be if she continues to gain weight before you go, you get someone else to go with you and it is explained clearly that if she has any kind of abusive behaviour or ruins things for your youngest then she is taken to a hotel room by the other person and stays there. If the bad behaviour continues and she starts to kick off then she's flown home early to stay with her dad. That may not be possible so she may just have to stay home with her dad.

I also think you should go with your 10 year old.
Mental illness is awful. I don't have anorexia but I do have depression for many years. A lot of the time my husband enabled me to behave badly because of it.
When he stood up to me was when I helped myself.
Your DD1 needs to know she can't hold you to ransom and your DD2 needs to know that you have her back too and she is equally as important.

op i do hik you sound angry towards your daughter.im not aying this isn't the most fustrting situation in the world...but if she is feeing ths.far enough your fully allowed to show it amongst friends on here.but you do sound so agr at all shes "doing to your younger dc and you" this illness is the fucking pits.its screwing and destryogin lives.its isn't your daughter though.its something infecting and trying to kill her in the nastiest ways possible.and will be hurting her like a knife to every minute of her day
those saying shes manipulating I wish you woukdnt.its such a harsh word used as if there is choice or purpose behind it.when there isn't.to the sufferer there is no choice in their actions.this is the illness but all the stuff u aim at the illness u are inevitably aiming t the young girl its embodying.she will be petrified and frightened and feel so out ofcontrol of what happening to her and what she is doing.
would anyone choose to do this or live like this.to miss out on the most precious parts and relationships in life?no!
the pressure and the illness is sabatging everything she holds dear and everything that will help her feel ok.why because it wants her at the bottom so she DIES.thats se weight so as not to go on holiday,not to destroy her families plans.how could a human want that for people she loves.
it wants her left behind so it can tell her how rejected and hated she is.
it wants to push people so she can see if they can rescue her from her scariest times because she feels like shes falling and doesn't no how to save herself.
it is her tumour.its growing and she is in pain.its not her choice she doesn't like it nor what it makes her feel and do.
this is such a hard decision but some poster really need to get a clue.
its just as big and scary as a physical illness.and just as without choice to make it grow or decrease sometimes.
and putting food or weight onto good things and bad can sometimes work but ultimately I found it fueled the belief that good or bd things happened still with weight.
she only ever fight when that times comes and itl be with an army of care and love and how worthy she feels behind it.

Her therapist says not to take her, she’s had clear warnings about the consequences - as long as she’s staying with someone she knows and trusts, I’d take your younger daughter and go. YANBU.

I think that somehow you have decided that no one is going on that hols.
Which I can actually totally get why. There just isn’t anyone to look after your dd whilst you are away.

I want to say that, if you do that, please ensure that you will go away with your younger dd (even if it’s a cheap thing in the U.K. - just being away will make a big difference for you and your dd2). But I imag8ne you will still have to same issue of who will look after her whilst you are away.

Which means that your biggest issue is your lack of support network. Harder to do in practice than on paper, but you need a system around you so you can have some break (and so does your dd2) whilst your dd1 is safe. Be it a night away somewhere whilst she is at school?
Otherwise, you can hold into hostage by your dd1 who knows you won’t leave her. And neither you nor your dd2 can get the breaks you BOTH need desperately.

Please listen to merrymuppet and take younger DD to the hol. And please do Not do as another poster says and take both and put younger in 'childcare' or a club to wholly focus upon her sister.

Could you speak to her like an adult- say you had planned to leave her if she lost weight, but the options (ex and your gps) are now no longer there, and you don’t feel she’d be safe if she was left. But you’re not letting her illness ruin the holiday for you and DD2, so you’re all still going to go

This is the wording you use so that the ED and the manipulation hasn't won. Yes she gets to go on the holiday but only because of the situation, not because the boundaries weren't there in the first place.

Oh and then follow the rest of merrys advice regarding boundaries and consequences. I agree with everything she says except whether she should go or not. I don't think dd1 should be left given that there is no one suitable to leave her with.

shakey If you read my post again I suggested seeing if there was a holiday club at the hotel for dd2 so that if dd1 is in meltdown and OP is unable to leave her or having to be wholly engaged in trying to calm dd1 down enough to be safe, and dd1 will not let them leave the room or go anywhere or do anything, dd2 has an escape and somewhere to go where she gets some holiday and some fun. As opposed to being stuck in a small room for hours on end in the middle of all the stress of her sister's crisis. That's rather different to your implication that I suggested OP dump her on a club to give all attention to dd1.

I have been dd2 in this situation. If my dsis wasn't doing well and wanted to control, and she often did, she would kick off to the point my DM couldn't do anything but focus on her to try and keep her safe. It wouldn't have mattered how jolly or positive or loving my DM was, (and that advice feels like a kick in the teeth to a parent who has given everything they've got to a child with a mh need day after day for years and is drained dry) my dsis would have raised the stakes to get what she wanted. Ensuring I didn't ever manage to have anything fun or enjoyable was a big part of her drive, as to see me happy when she felt so awful triggered her, she needed me miserable too. And to see me get any crumb of attention or make any choices for the family like where to eat also triggered her as ithit her huge fear of abandonment. She had to have all the control and all the adults.

To have somewhere to go to get away when things were worst, to have had somewhere to go where people weren't screaming and crying and threatening awful things, to have had access to adults who were emotionally available when my DM couldn't be, would have been a massive relief.

If OP has to take both girls that may give the OP and dd2 a little support. Not least relieving some of the OPs stress about what dd2 has to be exposed to.

Bucketsandspoons
Thank you. I got what you meant. When we last went on holiday there was a kids club that DD went in by choice ("because it's normal there mum!"). I'm not sure there is anything during the day but maybe in the evening, will check and add to the decision making.

And you absolutely nailed what life is like for my youngest and how sometimes all I can do is limit her exposure. I'm not jolly all the time, funnily enough the lack of a solid nights sleep for over two years has pretty much put paid to 24/7 happy mum. I think that's only to be expected.

Have you talked any further with Dd1?

What things make her kick off? Food related or just anything depending on her mood? Could part of it be pmt? Is she having periods?

Your DD sounds horrible and it can't all be blamed on her ED. She has to take responsibility for some of her actions. She is being abusive to your younger DD and to you. You need to protect DD10 and she deserves the holiday and time away from her abuser.

Pandering to DD15 has not worked, you need to toughen up a bit. Her physical and emotional abuse is not acceptable.

I think I will have to hide this thread. Toughen up?? Seriously? I firmly believe a lot of people would have crumbled long ago having to deal with what is perfectly normal documented behaviour for anorexics. Both confirmed by specialists in the field and the shelves of books I have read on the subject. My DD is not a monster, she has an illness, it is affecting her mind and changes her from the person she once was. She may never be that person again. If she had sustained brain damage in an accident and was angry and violent as a cause would people say she could help it? Or she was autistic or had developmental issues? She is still the child I gave birth to all those years ago, I have to remind myself of that when we have bad days, somewhere inside is the girl who loved making people happy and dancing and laughing through life.

Yes it sucks that I don't have a support system in place of family and friends to help. Life isn't great sometimes. My youngest DD is missing out on her childhood, that needs to be addressed somehow.

I do have boundaries with DD. I took my eye off the ball because she seemed to be getting better. That is my mistake here. And it coincided (or was triggered by?) any other support for her being lost. Which I couldn't have foreseen.

When are you due to go? I think you just need to make the decision asap and deal with potential fall out, rather than prevaricate longer. All the time you don't dd1 thinks she has the control.

Yes she is I’ll, but you need to understand that as her weight decreases her ability to rationalise and retain her cognitive functioning decreases too. It’s not your daughter that is the monster, it is the illness and to regain your daughter back you need to gain control of her monster that is her illness by punishing it and taking its power away. If you are not able to stand up to it will seem infallible to your daughter and lays the path for it gaining even more control. That is why treatment for eating disorders involve the removal of freedom and placing strict rules down. The behaviour won’t change without an increase in weight because it’s linked to physiological processes that occur with a low bmi. I know you are stuck between a rock and a hard place op but please don’t let your daughters monster win on this occasion!

At the moment DD1 has an illness and DD2 can and will hopefully turn her negative emotions on her sisters illness she has something tangible to blame. My childhood was destroyed by my mothers MH until I joined the military at 17. I found it much easier to reconnect with my mother as I had her illness to blame, my dad it was much harder as the feeling of him choosing sides was very raw even though logically I now know he wasn't. I do not think you have the option of leaving her, I do not think you could get on the plane. I would take them both even knowing it will be hell, its is going to be hell for DD2 no matter what but if you go the hell will be DD1 illness not the hell that she will feel that her mother is choosing sides (even though you are not).

Have you spoken to her anymore after your conversation yesterday? It seemed like such a light bulb moment.

It was a lightbulb moment. More for me than her. I spent a long time looking at photos of holidays and actually remembering. Also remembering the fact that for a lot of that time I was physically unable to eat too (stomach ulcers from the stress). So it's hardly surprising she sees food or no food as an answer to issues.

Have spoken with ex and am not filled with confidence about his abilities or even desire to "step up".

But I haven't made a decision yet because when I do I want it to be made and stuck to and at the moment I'm still pinballing over it.