AIBU it's not fun to keep a child up past their bedtime

[boomitscountginula]

EVEN if it's only ONCE!!

MILs birthday is tomorrow, both me and Oh are at work (we both work full time). Suggestion is we go for a meal in the evening, with DS (4).

We have said no, because it would mean, by the time we get home from work, picking up DS from after school club, getting changed etc, dinner would be 7:30 or 8pm. If we all rush. (We usually get home for just after 6pm).

DS 99% of the time is asleep by 7:30.

ILS responce, well don't send him to after school club (they hate we send him, and want to look after him everyday. But for more than a few reasons we have politely declined the offer). because then he won't be tired..

No. No. No. No.

He will be tired, as will both me and DH. Neither us or any other diner wants to be around a crabby 4 year old, in a nice restaurant on a Friday night.

Yes it's just one night. BUT HE IS FUCKING 4 and this isn't a concept he will be agreeable with.

It's not just the ILs a few people have invited us to do things like this and just can't imagine why we won't come, or only one of us will attend if we can't find a baby sitter.

In the summer we will do family parties at people's houses, where DS can bunk in a bed." Etc.

Really am I being precious? Because I don't think ruining everyone's nights with a moaning, tired, unreasonable, nagging 4 year old is fun for anyone?

I say stick to your guns and don’t go. I don’t think a restaurant is any place to be for a young child on a Friday evening (or any evening for that matter really). You would be selfishly prioritising your and your IL’s enjoyment over that of your child and the other diners.
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I find this ridiculous. Children offend other diners? Crying babies or badly behaved toddler maybe but a 4 year old? Only in the U.K. Would people think a restaurant is no place for a child on a Friday.

"These people with kids who have to be in bed at a set time - what happens when you go on holiday?"

We keep to the same timings and choose holidays that allow that.

We could do it with DD (4) if it was straight from work, eating 6pm absolute latest, and if it was somewhere child-friendly. She gets really silly when she's tired. Any later and the small toys we'd take to entertain her would be thrown, drinks would be spilled, not much would be eaten, and I'd spend the entire meal cringing with embarrassment, taking her outside until she stopped being horrid, and desperately trying to make her behave. At lunchtime, she would chat, colour, look at books, eat and be good company. She is more routine-driven than we are, and we work with that. On holiday, we might try a pub meal later if she's up to it, but on holiday it would be warm and light and we'd choose somewhere with a garden, which wouldn't work so well on a soggy dark November evening. PILS look after her one day a week, so they know her limits.

Yabu. If you get home at 6 why wait till 7;30 to eat. He might find the restaurant exciting.

With dc1 there is no way I would have considered it. We went on holiday when he was 3, with the idea that he’d stay up a bit later, sleep in a bit later. Oh, no. By 6.30pm he was in his buggy, screaming with tiredness, asking for his bed. We got lots of sleep that holiday!

Dc 2 on the other hand stayed up till 8-9pm no bother if needed.

You know your child and what they are able to deal with.

You don’t seem to like your MIL and you don’t want to go. Stop making your child the excuse.

Sorry, but I think you’re being unreasonable.

@craigglen you don't seem to like your mother in law

Why is always the go to response on mn? Op is prioritising her child's sleep needs and there is nothing wrong with that.

The more time I spend on mn the more is seems to be full of bitter mil's ready to gang up on anyone who says or does anything that might be perceived as remotely negative to a mil.

YANBU - I had this with MIL and her mums birthday meal not long ago. The meal was due to start at 7 and no doubt wouldn't be finished until passed 9:30pm.

DD had just turned one and is asleep by 7pm. 'Have her nap later' 'She can sleep in the restaurant' etc. Well no, I know my child. If she did actually manage to get to sleep in the restaurant she would wake and be full of beans when we got home.

Some children/babies would be ok but as parents WE know what's best for our DC's and what situations will of won't work.

I’m not a mil (yet) but this is one of those threads that makes me worry about being one. Not even because of the OP but because of some of the responses. Sometimes it is the dil.

I'm with you OP. MY DS (4) is asleep by 7pm every night.

Being in a restaurant with a tired, grumpy 4 year old is no fun for anyone.

@pictish why? Because a family wont prioritise a meal over their child sleep when older family members should be well aware that if they are planning an evening event the youngest members of family might not be able to come? What's to stop pil from doing something in the day time other than this is just what they fancy doing?

I've started to feel very sorry for anyone that uses the term "mil" on here.

These people with kids who have to be in bed at a set time - what happens when you go on holiday?

He goes to bed at the same time pretty much. Why should being on holiday be any different? .

My son has a personality transplant post 8pm or would be crying he is tired and wants to go to bed.

Mine got better for things like this from 8 onwards. They wouldn't have lasted the full evening so that meant awkwardness leaving early. It's a lot to ask a tired 4 year old in my experience. By 9/10 they were great at restaurants because we had taken them before but at lunchtime.

You know your own child.

If I'm ever lucky enough to be a grandparent then LUNCH is on me!

Yanbu - bedtime is bedtime, if they want your lo there they should have considered this and arranged for an afternoon event, it's hardly rocket science!

Yes it's just one night. BUT HE IS FUCKING 4 and this isn't a concept he will be agreeable with

Fucking FOUR year olds are just as flexible as any other child. It's the parents that are the issue.

He'd be just fine if you weren't so rigid. But since you clearly don't want to go, just say so, and stop using your kid as an excuse.

I think you’re right not to take him. It’s cruel if he’s going to be really tired- as adults we don’t enjoy being exhausted so why inflict that on a child! Plus I’d be pissed right off if I went for a nice meal on a Friday night and had to listen to a crying kid!

YANBU- this sums its up

I’m with you OP it’s not fun having an overtired child out way past their bedtime. You probably won’t enjoy it either as you’ll be sorting him out.

I agree with Buglife - children don't need to be kept in a separate world until they are older. Being part of a family is about being with people you love and doing things together, creating memories and having fun. Obviously this depends on the activity etc and the child. My DD is a bit of a night owl at aged 6 and a half, and we have always put her to bed at what others would consider late (8-8.30) but she gets 11-12 hours sleep and wakes herself up ok, plus is used to the later bedtime now. If she had been consistently put to bed at 6pm from a toddler age, things might be different. Yes, we don't get a longer evening to ourselves, but neither are we woken at 6am.

Obviously you know your child and their limitations and personality. I agree with PP that my fondest memories are of my daughter joining in family occasions, meals and fun times together going out, and if that means staying up slightly later, we have done so.

But each to their own of course. I also agree with others that you don't sound like you really want to go, but take some colouring things etc and it may be fine.

We have evening meals out with young grandchildren. We start early around 6.00, and go to fairly child-friendly places such as Jamie's. But you know your child. If he can't cope with it then it's no fun for any one. Could your husband go with your in-laws on the Friday, and you all meet up at the weekend for Sunday lunch?

In answer to the "what about holidays?" question - this year we went somewhere that was 2 hours ahead, so eating at 7/8pm was fine, as their body clocks still said that was 5/6pm. The year before we went self catering in Spain, so only an hour's difference, we did the 'big' meal out in restaurants at lunchtime, (also helped to get them out of the sun for a couple of hours as it was very hot) then the DCs had something light/snacky for dinner when they wanted it (normally around 6/7pm).

Keeping a DC awake past their bedtime is usually not a problem, it's expecting them to eat 1.5 hours later than normal. Or rather, expecting that they won't be hungry and begging for food an hour before, so not actually hungry when you get to the restaurant. Fine if grandparents aren't expecting the grandchild to eat with them, not if they've got it in their head they can have a 'family meal'.

We put up for years of MIL wanting sunday lunches at 2:30pm, never earlier. Drove me crazy as DC1 would get up at 5am, so breakfast was done by 6am and he was hungry at 12. It got that we were giving him a bacon sarnie at 11:30 to keep him going before we went over to PIL, arriving to find she'd 'solved' the problem of a hungry, grumpy grandchild with lots of crisps and snacks put out for him to graze on. Fine, but then she still expected him to sit at 2:30 at the table for at least half an hour, and to eat the food she'd made. (she got very offended that he wouldn't eat her food, always talking about how he 'barely eats anything', we did try to explain.)

The problem was solved when SIL had DC and just refused to come to sunday lunch if it wasn't served by 1pm at the latest. At 12:30 she'd crack open a packed lunch for DN, then leave at 1:30pm for DN's nap. She only had to do it once for MIL to move Sunday lunch to being on the table at 12:30pm. We smiled and agreed that of course we could fit round SIL & DN and arrive earlier if that suited everyone else. MIL started remarking about how wonderful that DC1 had found his appitite and how much he could then eat. She maintained he didn't eat a thing before he turned 3... (when DN started on solids)

Sleep is always easier to be flexible about than meal times when children are little. Some get more flexible when older, although my DC1 is now nearly 8 and still is a nightmare if he's expected to go too long between meals. He just can't do it and gets really angry.

Kids are different. My DD cries with tiredness if we try to keep her up past her bedtime which isn't fun for anyone and is a bit mean to do to her. We've tried and it doesn't work. Her bedtime is 8:30pm though so it's not too limiting

If you've taught them to be inflexible ny always having a rigid bedtime, of course they will be difficult when you then keep them up.

At 4, mine would have been a cranky, fidgety horror at a sitting down at 7.30pm meal. He needed to be in bed at 7, and though we've never been strict routine people at all what he has always needed is his sleep - at 11 he's still needing 11 hours of sleep a night!

So, I don't think you are unreasonable to not want to go to a meal where you and he will be unhappy, but to offer a perfectly reasonable meal tomorrow!

I can't get over the fact that your normally home at 6 and son goes to bed at half seven. You must never see him! And to top it off you choose to put him an after school club when he could be with his grandparents!