AIBU it's not fun to keep a child up past their bedtime

[boomitscountginula]

EVEN if it's only ONCE!!

MILs birthday is tomorrow, both me and Oh are at work (we both work full time). Suggestion is we go for a meal in the evening, with DS (4).

We have said no, because it would mean, by the time we get home from work, picking up DS from after school club, getting changed etc, dinner would be 7:30 or 8pm. If we all rush. (We usually get home for just after 6pm).

DS 99% of the time is asleep by 7:30.

ILS responce, well don't send him to after school club (they hate we send him, and want to look after him everyday. But for more than a few reasons we have politely declined the offer). because then he won't be tired..

No. No. No. No.

He will be tired, as will both me and DH. Neither us or any other diner wants to be around a crabby 4 year old, in a nice restaurant on a Friday night.

Yes it's just one night. BUT HE IS FUCKING 4 and this isn't a concept he will be agreeable with.

It's not just the ILs a few people have invited us to do things like this and just can't imagine why we won't come, or only one of us will attend if we can't find a baby sitter.

In the summer we will do family parties at people's houses, where DS can bunk in a bed." Etc.

Really am I being precious? Because I don't think ruining everyone's nights with a moaning, tired, unreasonable, nagging 4 year old is fun for anyone?

My kids would have coped fine at that age. My friend's kids not so much. But the real issue is your in laws' expectations. They can invite you, which is great - but they shouldn't expect you to keep your child up later than you want. If I were your MIL I'd plan something for the weekend if you weren't up for dinner Friday night.

YANBU, you know your own child. IME those with 'flexible' children find it hard to understand those that aren't. I still remember once taking the advice (against my better judgment) to stay until bedtime at a relative's for the day, and then put DS1 (similar age to yours) in his PJs when we left so that he could sleep in the car on the way home and then I could just 'transfer him to bed' when we got home. As I had feared, DS was awake for almost the entire 2 hour drive home, finally fell asleep 15 minutes before arrival at about 9pm, instantly awoke when I opened the car door, and then wouldn't go back to sleep until about 2am. And was still up at 6am. The next day was not enjoyable. Sorry, somewhat off topic, but my point is that other people don't know how your child will react as well as you do.

YANBU If your kids is a grumpy, screamy, over-tired but unable to sit still mess at that time in the evening, there's no point inflicting him on you or the other diners.

It's nothing to do with being flexible, and everything to do with different children having different reactions to tiredness. Some are fine, some wind up, some zone out, some cry and whine. If you have one of the latter, nothing works and its best just to accept it and wait until they grow up a bit more.

My dd at that age would've probably fallen asleep on my knee if I'd kept her up so late! At that age she just couldn't stay awake late and was in bed for 7pm. She still continues to get up between 6-7am however late a night out she's had!
She's 8 now and could prob cope with a later night, however she is always grumpy and in need of more cuddles the following day and usually an early bed time puts her back to normal.

Keeping him up just because he's four is a shitty thing to do. How do you think he'll feel? His do you think he'll feel the day after? And the day after that? They're just being really selfish in expecting him to drisrupt his body clock just to please them. I assume he wakes up pretty early? Why not ask them to a six am breafast and see how they feel about missing out on sleep?

IME experience people who berate you for being inflexible about your DC's routines are pretty inflexible themselves about managing the shit behaviour that results in keeping the kids up past their bedtime.

You will just get glares and snotty comments when your DS kicks off OP! Don't do it.

I can never understand people who don't get that children are not all the same as each other.

Well, you know your own kid, and some kids are more flexible than others when it comes to sleep. And I agree that an overtired child in a restaurant is hellish for all the other customers.
But you do give the impression of disliking your PIL and being very rigid with your own routines. Do you ever put yourself out for other people, or have things always got to be done your way?

The problem for me would be the fact that this is to be in an adult restaurant and quite late. I would definitely be ok with that up to 7pm but not later. My DDs are 8 and 5 now and I would go along with the timing, but I would want the venue to be a child friendly restaurant like Pizza Hutt. I wouldn’t want to have to constantly tell them to sit still and be quiet. It just wouldn’t be fun for me, or for the other diners.

Childten are all different. One of mine would have been a nightmare to keep up past bedtime, the other one was fine. A Friday night meal with a tired 4-year old who has been in school and after school care all week... no way would my inflexible child have coped with that. There would have been a tantrum at the restaurant and people pointing fingers and tutting about my inability to control my child

Really am I being precious?

A little. Most 3/4 year olds can cope with a bit of change of routine.

But you do give the impression of disliking your PIL and being very rigid with your own routines. Do you ever put yourself out for other people, or have things always got to be done your way?

Fair or not, I'm picking up a little of this as well, OP.

My sister was very, very rigid with 'timings' (a word we all grew to dread) and wouldn't shift anything for anyone, which meant her DC missing out on doing nice things occasionally, and other people missing out on spending precious time with them.

Sleep and routine is important, of course, but one night? I'd do it, and if my 3 year old couldn't stay the distance, we'd just organise a fall back plan so no one's night was ruined (ours or other diners!).

Why would the meal need to be at 7.30 or 8pm if you normally get home by 6? Can't the meal be at 6 or 6.30pm?

@angelikacpickles since the meal is at the restaurant and everyone gets home at 6,they can’t also have the dinner at 6.
And even 6;30 would be a stretch if people need to get changed,travel distance etc.

Resilience isn't just about taking knocks emotionally but about being adaptable.

I'm writing an essay on this ATM off topic - but a very true statement OP. And it's cajoled me into getting back to my essay writing

Two hours to change clothes and travel to a restaurant? If that's the case, then I'd ask that they choose a closer restaurant and book it for 6.30. Or 6pm if the FIL can collect and bring the DS and you meet them there.

4 was about the age when we started occasionally doing stuff like this. The kids loved the treat or going to a 'fancy' restaurant. We would just accept that they might not be good for much the next day. If you don't want to go because you don't like your MIL then I think that's fine but maybe try relaxing a little for your own sake. Kids do evolve and you might realise that you actually have more freedom than you though.

I agree with you OP. I don't think you're being precious, just trying to avoid the stress of having to deal with an overtired, pain in the ass kid!!

My DC is 4, and while I’ve always felt it was important for her to have a regular bed ‘time’, this was within a 30 min window. There have always been occasions with a later night - fireworks, family parties etc, so she has always been flexible, however a later night doesn’t equate to a later get up the next morning, but normally a chilled out next morning and then earlier night to follow. Wouldn’t generally allow a late night during the week except in special circumstances,and a Fri night is generally the best time ime as she’s hyped from school and excited for the evening! I would def give a light tea earlier on though, that is quite late to wIt for main meal.

Also, is there a reason why you can’t go straight from work/picking up from after school club? That would save ages.

Some children just don’t cope well with late nights. DD would have been ok (ish) but DS at 4 would cry with tiredness and pretty much beg to be put to bed if we even tried to keep him up til 8 unbelievable as that may be to some.

Bearing in mind that dinner would only be starting at 7.30 or 8 then it’s a long night for a tired (and possibly bored to make him even more fractious) 4 year old. I mean it’s not McDonald’s is it so dinner could go on until well after 10! If you already know he’s likely to find it hard going then I wouldn’t go.

I'd let him go, I bet he'll enjoy himself.
Your MIL must enjoy spending time with him, perhaps she doesn't see him as the 'moaning, nagging, unreasonable' boy that you see.

Do it. If hes miraculously fine then great, youve had a good night. If hes crabby then firstly let IL's deal with it and secondly make it really clear you told them so in case they suggest anything similar again.

If he was under a year old I’d say YANBU. But he’s 4. YABU to not relinquish just one night. Not like you’re taking him raving til 1am.

I'm with you OP. Some kids are flexible and easygoing when it comes to sleep, and some are not. My children are not

DD is six now and is foul the next day if she's had a late night and weepy if she's overtired (and no, they don't always sleep in the next morning to compensate).

Depends on the kid TBH. My youngest at 6 would suffer for so late to bed. At the same age, my other managed fine at same age. Both would be zinged by it for 2+ days (youngest much, much worse - miserable, unreasonable, tantrums and having to suffer the consequences of bad behaviour resulting from adults making him feel shite).
Actually I know adults that can/can't cope with a late one.

Well I would go. It does sound a teensy bit like you want to do things your way not your MILs.

I'd go. I'd either let them skip after school club and see if they'd have a nap or I'd just let them settle on my knee if they were tired.