AIBU to think the NHS should not be recommending hysterectomy to young girls

[pisacake]

NHS handout for 'young trans people in the UK'

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/17-15-02-A-Guide-For-Young-People.pdf

'Surgical Options'

"Hysterectomy
This surgery involves the removal of the interior female sexual organs. This prevents the risk of cancer and forever prevents periods or risk of pregnancy"

Sounds awesome doesn't it!

Here's the NHS advice on taking drugs

"Hormone Blockers
If blockers (or anti-androgens) are taken when younger, the effects from puberty are likely not to occur and a more passable body is likely to result."

Yes, that's right kids you can just skip puberty, and be Peter Pan. It's a brave new world where you are stuck with a micropenis for the rest of your life.

And what if your stupid parents don't agree?

"If you are under 16 a lot will depend on gaining the full support from your parents. In other countries hormone blockers can be given to younger transsexual people which will prevent the onset of unwanted secondary sex characteristics. This may mean that you look further than the UK for medical intervention. It would be undesirable to buy hormones over the internet without fully knowing what you are buying."

That's right kids! You can suppress those pesky unwanted secondary sex characteristics' by buying hormones on teh internetz. Yay NHS! Yay Aneurin Bevan!

And boys, thinking of becoming girls, it's NOTHING to worry about, you can chop off your balls and turn your dick inside out, it's perfectly normal! It will even improve your health, everything is awesome!

""Orchidectomy is the removal of the testes. This operation means that testosterone will no longer be naturally produced in the body and therefore you can do without your testosterone blocker. In general, the lower the dose of any drug the lower the health risks you will have. "

"Technology for SRS is quite advanced and with good surgery even gynaecologists are said to find it hard to distinguish a constructed vagina from a natal one. "

A constructed vagina huh? You mean like a sex toy? www.lovehoney.co.uk/sex-toys/male-sex-toys/pocket-vaginas/ I hear they are pretty realistic too.

This is NHS advice, albeit I don't think any doctor actually reviews this stuff before they print it, there seems to be an attitude that it would be transphobic to have any of this written by mainstream medics, so let's just let a self-selecting group of people with loud voices do it. (Like the group Mermaids, who are recommended in the handout, and who basically consist of one woman who took her son to Thailand at 16 to have 'bottom surgery'.)

And don't think all these pamphlets and websites telling you that hysterectomy and puberty blocking are awesome have no effect on kids. Nope, there is a MASSIVE increase in kids identifying as trans.

Here's an article today from St Albans www.hertsad.co.uk/news/increase-in-trans-support-is-offered-as-child-gender-fluidity-rises-in-st-albans-district-1-5264057

Lots and lots of girls deciding they are boys because "He wouldn’t wear knickers and refused to play with girls’ toys" and the NHS happily supporting that. (That biologically female child is seven-years-old, and per the NHS handout above you will get GREAT results, by taking puberty blockers follow by testosterone, which "offers very effective masculinisation for FTMs". Apparently said child is "adamant he will grow up and get married and be the husband and daddy and he will have a wife". )

There is obviously no meaningful consent possible by pre-pubescent child to puberty blocking, because they have no real conception of what puberty hormones would do to their body AND brain. But apparently there is no concern whatsoever about this, because EVERYTHING IS AWESOME when you're trans. So much better than being a boring old 'cis' female with periods and cancer and pregnancy and all those silly 'ciswoman' problems.

I misread the first question I thought it said would I have been able to sufficiently convince my parents.

@datun

Yes he (born she) is dating girls, why?

When she was starting to tell my partner all this, before she had actually come out with it, he asked if she was gay. She said no.

About 10 months later she was in a relationship with a girl and I was a bit confused. DP asked her about it and she said because she feels she should be that means being attracted to girls means he (born she) is straight....

I was very much a tomboy but very much female when young - get me! I was strong and female.

I celebrated with my aunt when my period came with a sherry! She never had children herself but she was a carer for her mother and high up in the civil service.

Plus she had a fabulous dressing table!

That should say "should be male"

Find the hysterectomy stuff quite hard to believe, especially in very young women. I asked at the start of the year aged 32 and was told that they wouldn’t consider me at this age due to the increased risk of heart attack and various other conditions that can result from having one

Hysts are serious stuff (even leaving aside the obvious reproductive thing). Increased chance of ovaries failing prematurely if done before the menopause - which can lead to heart disease, dementia an all sorts. Increased chance of vaginal prolapse. Less sensation in sex. Many women report a ‘sinking’ or ‘dragging ‘ sensation.

There are no doubt situations where a hysterectomy is the only option, perhaps life-saving. It should never be presented as a downside-free measure, let alone without exploring all other possible avenues first.

It’s difficult to unravel the motivation behind this. But people like Mermaids, GIRES, Gendered Intelligence, etc, are all justifying their existence.

They’ve got a ready pool of customers and people in the government who have no clue about half of this.

Hundreds of women have written to their MPs and to the women and equalities committee, and then published the responses. It’s more than evident that the government are clueless.

I’ve seen people publish replies from three or four entirely different MPs, and it’s all the same letter. Identical.

Even on mumsnet, where people are more informed, there are very, very many others who are still clueless. How many people have only realised what’s happening because they have read thread after thread on here?

For instance, how can anyone read this thread and not be concerned? Because people are. They are reading it and saying it’s either bollocks or it’s transphobic.

That has to mean they’re not reading any of the links.

I don’t mind people reading the links and then saying I don’t think it’s as bad as you think. I get that.

But it’s one part of it. I’m incredibly sceptical about all of it. It’s not a gut feeling, it’s having read so much, dodgy statistics, self interested parties, etc.

@datun i only know about it through friends in the teaching profession who privately think 'SHIT what is this madness' but at school have to follow policy and nod and smile and present the organisations who can help. Anyone who makes a scene is transphobic and fired. Basically.

This may be what kills the NHS, which is exactly what the tories want to happen. Even better, they can blame it on the liberal left-wing as they were the ones that wanted this...

I tried to start another thread to be polite/not derail. I think we will look back on this with the same horror as the ice pick lobotomies performed on kids on the 1950s:

www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jan/13/neuroscience.medicalscience

snash12

Because it’s textbook. Almost all the girls who do go onto transition are, in old money, lesbians.

Could be internalised lesphobia, it could be that she is just butch. And therefore feels that she should be male. Could be that she was fed up with male attention, given that she might not be the slightest bit interested in it.

Lots of older lesbians are breaking their hearts over young lesbians who are transitioning. They don’t want to be thought of as lesbian. It’s easier to be straight, right?

What is your take on it?

Elendon

Your aunt sounds fantastic. You’ve painted such an alluring picture.

I’m seeing it in sepia, 1940s dress, and a lot of Joyce Grenfel accents.

My strong female self did not shield me from sexist remarks and unwanted attention from older adult males.

Thetoothyteeth

@datun i only know about it through friends in the teaching profession who privately think 'SHIT what is this madness' but at school have to follow policy and nod and smile and present the organisations who can help. Anyone who makes a scene is transphobic and fired. Basically.

Yeah, if I had a penny for every time I’ve heard that. It’s so sinister.

Her dressing table was a piece inherited from a manor house! But we had posh Northern Irish accents. And yes, sepia photos of very strong looking women - great aunts.

www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/growing-pains

Good article from medical professions on why those who disagree should NOT be silenced

If you had a trans teenager, like I do, who is vulnerable and autistic who sincerely and profoundly believes that they can solve all their problems by having surgery to remove parts of their body and taking synthetic hormones for the rest of their life, you would cry with relief that there are people finally questioning how this ideology has been swallowed whole by the NHS with no opposing view. Thank goodness for Mumsnet.

COmmentary on article - from what i think? Is a 'conservative' publication - haven't read apart from this one section - but regardless of what politics you're in to what they say makes a lot of sense. Basically same as many of the comments on here.

@datun

I met her dad when she was about 16, the first photo I saw was a prom photo - hair and make up done and nice prom dress, she looked happy.

2 years later on the holidays between finishing college and getting ready for uni Was when she had the conversation with her parents.

Partner and I spoke about it and I asked if he ever had an inkling and he said both he and her mum had hints she may be gay.

I really don’t know what to think. I kind of feel I should just be supportive, especially as my partner and his ex wife have done so and accepted this is what she wants.

I think after reading this thread it’s just a terrifying thought that she (without knowing it yet) isn’t transgender and is gay but the hormones have done quite a lot so far.

@label i do not envy you. In all seriousness, good on you for taking back some control and putting your child first in all this madness. Good to know some people out there with balls (excuse the pun...) and the ability to do some critical thinking prior to lifechanging decisions.
Good luck to you and your dc

Labelmystery
I believe that there seems to be quite a link between autism and transgender ID.
Do you mind me asking where you and your daughter have found support from?

What I find strange though is the alignment between FGM and circumcision with MRAs, yet they are strangely quiet, very much so, when it comes to trans. This silence of MRAs speaks volumes to me.

Labelmystery

for you. I have nothing but compassion and sympathy. It’s a nightmare. Have you read Lily Maynard online? Her daughter identified as trans and then changed her mind. They both write about it.

It must be such a heartbreaking situation to be in. If your child has genuine gender dysphoria, you can’t separate your intellectual analysis from your overwhelming desire to protect and support your child.

Autism is significantly over represented amongst transmpeople. I’m assuming you know that, though.

Transgendertrend is another good website for supporting parents of transchildren. It’s gender critical, but Stephanie Davis Arai, who runs it, is only interested in children’s welfare. She is gentle, kind and extremely well-informed.

What shocks me is that two or three years ago when these threads would be started, there were no, or very few, parents who had a child identifying as trans.

Now, each thread will bring up more and more.

The trans community says it’s because transgender is now more acceptable. So people feel more comfortable coming out.

But in that case, where are all the middle-aged women who are finally relieved to come out and be their authentic selves?

snash12

Very difficult. I guess all you can do is be supportive, but try and remain gender critical at the same time. Really hard.

@datun

Thank u for your advice.