To ask WWYD in this school situation

[Junglejupiter]

I really need help (and maybe a reality check) so prepared to hear all opinions but please be kind because I'm upset about this as it is

DD has been having trouble with a girl at school since she started. I'm not going to bore you with a list of incidents but this girl has taken a dislike to my DD and won't allow her to join in play with any other girls that she see fit. I've spoken to the school about this and they have spoken to my DD about things she can do if she finds herself with no one to play with.

A couple of weeks ago, my DD came home very upset as this girl had spat at her. I went in to speak to the HT as normal teacher was away that day and it was very much brushed off as "that's not acceptable, we will keep an eye on it". My DD still comes home and says she's been playing on her own because this girl excludes her.

I've tried inviting friends round to tea to get my DD intergrating with another group but my DD is finding it really hard. She comes home and tells me that this girl is mean to her - tells her to "go away" "you can't play with us" "get off that you can't play on that" etc.

Today j had a voicemail from the HT saying that my DD has been involved in an incident where she has hit this girl, that she's missed her playtime and can I have a word with her because it's not acceptable to be doing that. I've tried ringing the HT back (10 mins later) to be told that she's unavailable to speak to me.

Now don't get me wrong - hitting is wrong and she will be punished at home accordingly but part of me wants to scream and shout that this is a reaction to all what's been going on with her since she started school with this girl. Days of her coming home upset. She's quite a shy girl and hitting is totally out of character for her.

Please give me advice - I'm in tears here, partly because I'm frustrated I've got to wait till 3.15pm to speak to a teacher and secondly because I'm so sad that this has happened

If they are fully insistent that my DD is not being bullied though am I losing the battle before I've begun?

No, you have recourse to the Governors, although the Chair may well support/side with the Head. You need to go through the process though. Once you've done that, escalate to the LEA.

OFSTED will just pass any complaint back to the LEA, who will then pass it back to the school. It will raise awareness, however. However, if the bullying policy really isn't on teh website complaining about that to OFSTED could be interesting.

How can they deny there has been bullying if they've been teaching your dd what to do when she's being excluded at playtime?
If this girl (or her mother) doesn't want your dd playing with her that's up to her but getting other kids to exclude her as well is bullying.

Absolutely. Go to the governers.
They will talk to the Head Teacher and get their side of it but you will be listened to properly.

It may be worth seeing how things go, but similar happened to a relative of mine and they moved schools and it really was the best thing. They had become an anxious and withdrawn child and moving schools trurned things around completely.

The Head is not interested in what you have to say. I think the way she brushed you off - like an irritating fly - is disgraceful. Your poor DD .

I would look into changing schools.

I'm so angry for you.

HT then walked in, sat down (without hearing all what I had said before) and said "we have no problems with how the girls are playing and if we did we would tell you" and I then said there's clearly an issue and she interrupted saying "I'm sorry we are going to end this because we have a staff meeting" I'm ashamed to say I just got up and walked out. I was so angry I was shaking.

That would seriously piss me off. Didnt you say they told you to come and have a chat? Why tell you to come in and have a chat about it if they didn't have the time? Especially the fact your DH left work early for it too.

I've got the voicemail on my phone which says "come in and have a chat with the teacher after school"

ime chools are loathe to try to discipline or manage parents. I'd forget about complaining about the other mum. The issue isn't the other mother or even the other child. It's the school's failure to deal with the ongoing bullying.
Arrange your next meeting for when your DD is in class. If you can't do that then ask if she can wait in reception. You can't discuss this matter fully with your DD in attendance.
As I said in my earlier post, I'd email today asking for the bullying policy and the complaints procedure. Use key words like safeguarding; duty of care; bullying.
They are hoping they can fob you off. You need to make it clear that this issue isn't going away and they have to deal with it.

I'm really sorry but I have to agree with those who say you need to start looking at other schools. With a headteacher who can behave as you have described, you could find yourself with nothing but trouble ahead. The headteacher could easily have excused your child's teacher from the staff meeting until you'd finished.

Definitely escalate the issue, but look to get your child out of there (unless the governers indicate that it is the last straw and they are able to get rid of the head ... probably unlikely but you can dream). I was a child bullied by the "golden child"(ren) through primary and we didn't know until a long time later that it was a pattern repeated throughout the school. The head's attitude prevented anything being properly dealt with so it all escalated over time.

And being excluded at playtime is bullying. My DD suffered severe bullying and is still going through the after effects here. I still remember a new girl specifically being told not to play with DD by her bullies as they'd exclude her too.

I moved my DD OP. My only regret is not doing it years sooner than I should have done.

Email them. Tonight. Write down all incidents you can think of. Also cc in the school governors.

Ask them in this email for a copy of their bullying procedure, and ask the head directly on how he/she will safeguard your child? Put in writing you were brushed off in the meeting.

Ask them what are they doing to safeguard your child? How they are going to prevent further incidents? Explain that this is having a negative effect on your child.

it’s horrible watching your child being bullied.

At my gs's previous primary, parents were actually ringing the LEA to complain about the Head. I think that if this is her attitude, then you will certainly not be the only one.

By all means write and complain but you may not get the response you want from the Governors which is all the more upsetting. I found ours to be cowardly and lacking in integrity until they wanted something from me which I refused.

Honestly op, do not waste any more of your time on this awful school and not fit for purpose Head. She swatted you away like an irritating fly and as she refuses to acknowledge bullying in her school, things are not going to change.

I would not even send your lovely dd back there tomorrow. Ring the LEA, explain the situation and they can help you by letting you know what schools have places locally. They were very good with me but I went to have a look round myself. We went into the local Catholic school on the Monday morning, gs stayed for a try out, had his lunch and stayed the rest of the day. I bought his uniform at teatime and he just never went back.

I am a grandparent carer and have been through similar before so I have experience of knowing when to call it a day with a school. I know you feel so angry at the moment but I don't think from what you have said that you are going to change anything. Whilst it is a big move, it is not an insurmountable one. It was 100% the right thing for gs.

Definitely take it to the governors.

Don't let the HT bully you.

As a former governor I can say that some surprisingly minor complaints, have been discussed at length of governing body meetings. This usually happens when at the initial point of complaint, the parent was treated really badly and turned to us in despair. We did listen and insist on action where necessary. We also noted the inadequate previous staff response.

Then you have parents who have very solid grounds for complaint, who were appropriately dealt with by classroom teachers or the HT at the time and who were satisfied with the response.

So more fool your HT if she hasn't worked this out yet.

Governors. Immediately and in writing. And look at other schools. Your poor DD does not deserve to have this issue minimised like this and the way the HT handled things today is outrageous! This should absolutely have taken priority over a staff meeting.

Op how awful! Your poor dd - the wetting is a very serious sign of distress if she does not usually do this.

You and dh need to make a plan:

Consider moving her, this might not be resolved easily. Look into spaces at other schools as a line of enquiry
Book an app with the head for tomorrow morning and ask her what she plans to do about this explaining what has happened
Make sure there is a plan in place for your dd in the interim - is there a teacher than she can go to if there is a problem that is both kind and trustworthy?

Bullying can happen in any year including reception, this needs nipping in the bud

Absolutely, the HT just thoroughly minimised the bullying your poor DD has gone through. As has been said, the teacher could have been excused from the staff meeting.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil op.
I would be back up the school in the morning, give this disgrace of a HT what for.

Your child is relying on you.

This happened to my nephew and my BIL got so fed up he told my nephew in front of the woefully inadequate HT to hit back and hit harder. The HT said ooh no we mumsnet do that! We don't condone violence and my BIL said well you don't stop it either so tough.
It stopped the bullying.
Butvthey moved him in the end.

This makes me feel utterly heartbroken for you DD, she’s suffered by this girl been ignored and finally snaps and gets pusnished. You are not being unreasonable at all.

Your poor DD. If the other girl's mum was on board with sorting this out then I'd suggest sticking around. Getting through difficult situations with support can make kids stronger in the long run. However, since the head seems incompetent in this respect and the other mum isn't interested I would move her.

If she moves, praise her for sticking up for herself and for telling you. Tell her that most schools know how to help children sort these things out, but that her current school doesn't seem able to do that. She hasn't failed, she's a good friend and she's quite right that this sort of behaviour isn't acceptable.

My head would never dismiss concerns like this. She'd listen and investigate no matter what. Send an email tonight and if you're then not happy with the response then escalate this to the governors.

My DS when he was in year 2 when he hit a child at school and I punished him ( we didn’t smack our children, but he was sanctioned). Within the next 24 hours several parents contacted me to say their child had witnessed the incident and the boy he hit was the ringleader of a group of children who had been bullying DS for months. DS has AS and hadn’t told me! I have never forgiven myself for not listening to him first and offering him my support. My son had few friends at school and he should have been able to rely on me.

Four years later and DS still totally exasperated by same boy and he hit him, hard! Whole class cheered, shook DS hand, patted him on the back etc. Whole class was fed up with this child. Teacher dealt with incident without punishment for DS as he said the bully had had it coming for years. DS refused to apologise for hitting bully as “he genuinely wasn’t sorry, and didn’t want to be hypocritical

I guess what I’m saying is offer your child support come what may. Bullying is NOT acceptable, and they should not be seen to have ‘won’. I hope that you had a successful meeting.

The anti bullying or complaints procedure should state that the parents will be informed and brought in with the child in question for a meeting

You need to address this

The complaints procedure may be LA wide rather than limited tot he school so looknon their website

Also - it's Anti bullying week next week I think

Ask the teacher what she will be doing to address the class on the cause and effects of bullying and what bystanders should do if they see or hear any nasty behaviourbin the playground - you need the bystanders to have a voice for your DD if she's not up to it herself

There should always be at least one adult in the playground who surely if asked can keep an eye on a 4 year old who has no one to play with, especially in a small school. Some schools have a 'road sign' or specific bench in the playground for anyone needing someone to play with. Older children (Y2) volunteer to be on a rota to look after anyone needing company. It works well.
It is good that the class teacher listened to you, she will have far more clue what really goes on between her pupils than the head.
The other child saying 'my mummy says I shouldn't play with you' is unpleasant. Your DD, hard as it may be, needs to learn to ignore the girl and move away from her.
There must be nicer children in the class/playground to play with. Again all it needs may be the teacher on duty to say to another group 'Junglejupiter junior is looking for someone to play with, you'll look after her, won't you?'