To be shocked at the sheer amount of hatred and ignorance about transpeople on mumsnet

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Specifically transwomen, according to the majority of mumsnet, all transwomen want to rape biological women, “steal their womanhood” and all sorts of other ridiculous, offensive statements without any factual backing.

So why is Mumsnet so intolerant and ignorant towards transgender people?

*trans fluid not trans gender doh!

Plus of course if men can get into the women’s changing rooms just by claiming to be gender fluid who knows what that may lead to. Can you guess??

Fascinating thread which has definitely brought me to peak trans. To derail slightly, is there anything we can do to voice our disagreement and concerns with the proposed legislation change?

Realistically,

How many transgenders do you know.

I don't know any. Am I unusual or what?

I know four trans people. One an old friend of DP's (came out as trans 5 years ago), one a good friend of my sister (full op, has lved as a woman for over 20 years) and one a teenage child of my friend and one ex-colleague, but not someone I knew very well (seemed lovely, very old-school transsexual). All MTF.

Most of my friends have younger children. I suspect parents with teenagers are much more likely to know several trans teens these days.

I was thinking about this earlier today. Before all of this, I happily went along with their belief that they were women as they didn't seem to be harming anyone. Did I really believe it? No, I didn't. I would never have said it though. But with the current state of affairs, it's getting to a position where I can't just brush it under the carpet any more - it is affecting me now.

I don't think trans rights activism is good for old school transfolk at all. I would have happily gone along with the beliefs of the transwomen I know indefinitely if it wasn't for the proposed change in the law and the rise of transactivism.

I

OP I’m calling BS on this whole ‘transphobia’ shit your spouting.
First of all it’s not directed at trans people, it’s directed at all people with penises. If anything it’s penisphobia if you will. But it’s nore accurately positive discrimination against people with penises.
People with penises commit the vast majority of sexual assault and all of rape.
Most of these horrendous crimes are committed against people with vaginas.
People with vaginas have been oppressed by people with penises throughout history.
People with vaginas have had to fight for their basic human rights throughout history.
If people with penises are allowed to share spaces with people with vaginas where they will be undressing and therefore, in a vulnerable position. It will then add to the disprivilege of the people with vaginas.

Haven’t read the full thread, but totally agree with OP. I find that any thread that mentions trans people and especially trans women is INCREDIBLY transphobic and it’s getting to the point that I don’t want to come onto mn because it just makes my heart hurt to see all this hatred 😢

Men aren't women, trans women are still men. I am honestly baffled at how saying so is controversial.

Ditto NerdyViking.

This sheer amount of mental gymnastics some posters go through to justify their hatred is just baffling.

For one example, that people believe there is this epidemic of people pretending to be trans to use change rooms to attack women.

It reminds me of the biggots in America trying to pass all these ‘bathroom bills’.

Have people said that? Or have they expressed legitimate concern that changing the law to a process of self declaration will eliminate the protection of single sex spaces for women and the risks that may cause? Do you think that discussing potential implications that changes to the law might have for the safety of women and girls is hatred?

@NerdyViking and @ZoeWashburne you're confusing people disagreeing with the ideology of transactivism with hatred of trans people. They are not the same thing.

Transactivism and the definition of transgender is much wider than old school transsexuals. The language and actrions of hate are coming from the transactivists, not us. If you listen to what they're saying, the rhetoric is "punch a TERF" "die TERF scum" and recently, they've started physically attacking us. What's a TERF? Anyone who questions their ideology.

From people here, I see reasoned argument and debate. Where's the hatred?

There are trans people who question the Transactivists, like Miranda Yardly for example. Do you think they hate trans people too?

When young trans rights activists start beating up 60 year old feminists with their fists for inviting reasoned debate, are we supposed to just STFU and accept it?

For one example, that people believe there is this epidemic of people pretending to be trans to use change rooms to attack women.

I don't think I've seen anyone say that on any thread. But as far as I'm concerned if even one predatory man accesses female only spaces by pretending to be transgender, that would be one too many for me. I don't accept the concept of there being an acceptable level of collateral damage to women and girls.

The only hatred I see is from transactivists towards women.

Here's the Retail Gazette, of all things, on Topshop's changing room.

www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2017/11/topshop-changing-rooms-now-gender-neutral/

The person they quote from Twitter is 'build a bonfire put terfs on the top'

So someone saying to burn women alive.

Is there any kind of similar rhetoric in the opposite direction?

@NerdyViking

I honestly wouldn’t have the nerve to admit out loud that, despite not reading something, it’s completely wrong.

It’s literally the definition of prejudice.

prejudice
noun
1preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

@ZoeWashburne

For one example, that people believe there is this epidemic of people pretending to be trans to use change rooms to attack women.

Complete strawman. No-one has said that.

No wonder kids are swallowing the Kool-Aid. No one reads and then they make up accusations with zero critical thinking.

I️ wish the people posting in agreement with the OP would give concrete examples and reasoned responses rather than just shouting ‘see - TRANSPHOBIC!!. If you genuinely believe that then please make an attempt to actually educate the posters on this thread about why their comments are so transphobic. So far though, all you are doing is fueling the fire against you, because there are a lot of very calm reasoned responses on here and posters with legitimate questions and concerns - none of which any TRA has bothered to answer.

@ZoeWashburne No one has said that epidemic exists, and of course it doesn’t because the process to be recognized as another gender and therefore have access to that genders sex segregated space is fairly long winded. How can you not see that if that process is taken away and all someone has to do is spend ten minutes ticking a box, that will become a huge loophole for sexual predators (trans or not)? Just like sexual predators exploit other loopholes available to them now, why would they not use their ability to simply declare ‘I’m a woman’ (even if they aren’t trans) to gain access to vulnerable women?

Woman is not a feeling.

Please actually go and read all of these threads and you will see well-thought-out critical reasoning. We are not believing what we are told just because someone says something is so. It's not hatred. You can cover a victoria sponge cake in fondant icing and put as many decorations on it as you like but it will never be able to just magically change to a chocolate sponge.

This sheer amount of mental gymnastics some posters go through to justify their hatred is just baffling.

Just LOL. The sheer amount of mental gymnastics people go through to justify saying men are women is just baffling.

The sheer amount of mental gymnastics that people go through to say that TA's violence towards women isn't, erm, violence towards women is unbelievable.

Men are not women and will never be. I will never understand why words have exact meanings if those meanings are constantly ignored. It’s ridiculous. No one has said anything resembling hate towards trans people, please, please copy and paste or screenshot if you see this everywhere because I am struggling to see what you mean. You have no evidence and nothing to show which means you are aiming anger where it isn’t needed. As far as I am aware the only hate is coming from the trans activists who are saying that all cis ‘scum’ should die. I am not scum and I am certainly not cis. I am a woman in the truest sense and that is it.

Why want to be a woman if you would gladly punch and attack women.... you know real, actual women... why want to be something you talk in such hateful terms about?

Am buggering back off to the glittery Xmas threads :)

It makes your heart hurt when people say that 'burn a terf'/ 'rape a terf' is unacceptable? When people say hang on a minute, this man has no gender dysphoria, is straight, has a criminal record for sexual offenses against women and demands (often with much swearing and threats involved) to be allowed into women and girls spaces? When people say that they believe in science over personal beliefs?

Seriously?

I think youve started this thread to be a GF OP - you should be ashamed of yourself. Were you bored?