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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Not to give up my seat, I am 54, for a child, about 6 yrs old, on the underground?

204 replies

losmn · 31/10/2017 19:01

Sitting on a very busy underground train. 2 ladies and 2 children get on. One child, under 2, in push chair and 'mum' holding second child, 6 ish. Mum then walks in between seats with 6 yr old and asks if someone can please give up seat for her child. Mother nor child seem distressed or unable to stand. Lady in her 60s ish gets up for child, at next stop passenger adjacent to child and lady in her 60s gets off the train so mum and child seat together. No issues whatsoever. In fact are now chatting away happily ??? Comments please.

OP posts:

MyWhatICallNameChange · 31/10/2017 20:54

Just remembered the time someone shouted at me and my son because my DS was sitting in "her" seat on a train (reservations had been cancelled) I told her he had autism so that was why he appeared rude and like he was ignoring her - he just didn't understand what she was saying. So she scoffed at me saying he had autism, obviously thought I was making it up. DS can be quite loud when he talks (about whatever his current obsession is) and it's quite plain when he talks that he's not a NT 15 yo. Normally I remind him to use his quiet voice. Not this time, I let him talk at his preferred volume all the way to our stop about his obsessions (lights, maps etc)

But he looks fine, so he can't be disabled.

He still talks about the lady shouting whenever we go on a train and this was months ago. So thanks woman for spoiling not just one journey for us.

Rinceoir · 31/10/2017 20:55

On a very busy underground I don’t think small children should be standing. I’m 5ft5 and find it hard to find something to grab on to on a packed tube, so it’s likely a child under 6 will be unable. People boarding tend to not notice small kids, knock into them with bags or push against them which I think would be frightening and very uncomfortable for a small child.

Trafalgarxxx · 31/10/2017 20:55

Prorkless what about said adult as a hidden disability and doesn’t let your child sit down.
Are you also teaching them that there might well be some good reasons why that adult isn’t giving their seat up?

You see the problem with offer it to anyone I think may need it more than me is that it depends on what YOU think the need of the other person is. And how on earth do you decide that??

My mum has always been horrified to be given a seat on the tube. She is over 70yo and sees herself and young and healthy enough to stand.
I, on the other side, is always in the look out for a spare seat because I have ME and stand8ng for long periods like this is not possible for me. And certainly not with all the walking and stairs you have there.
I do look much more able to stand up than my mum though...

So how are you going to teach your child that my mum is ok to stand up (and is it really ok and respectful for him to expect her to get up?) but not from me (in my 40s and it looking disabled or ill) so the respectful th8ng to do is to leave me alone and for him to stand up?

roundaboutthetown · 31/10/2017 20:57

I would most definitely give up my seat to a 6-year old if they looked to be flagging or the tube was extremely crowded and they were being squashed, or if I was asked politely by their parent. I wouldn't give up my seat as a matter of course.

midnightmisssuki · 31/10/2017 20:57

There was a very similar thread on here a few days ago.......

NataliaOsipova · 31/10/2017 20:59

But that's why those badges are a good idea. Or, if you don't want to wear one, you should ask politely for a seat; I would tell a child that disability isn't always visible and that, 99 times out of 100, someone asking for a seat needs it more than we do.

Spangles1963 · 31/10/2017 21:13

NataliaOsipova Wow! That is incredible. Might I ask what area of the country you were in when this happened? I'm asking as I had a very unpleasant experience on the London Underground last year,during a spell of very hot weather. I am disabled and use 2 walking sticks or crutches (I have arthritis in multiple joints). I'd already let 2 trains go as they were packed but I had to get on the third one otherwise I could see myself sitting there the rest of the day. This train was also packed so I ended up standing near the door at the end of the carriage. Not one person in any of the 4 'priority seats' offered me a seat. After 40 minutes,I was in considerable pain and feeling faint too. Trying to balance on 2 crutches and hold on to the pole to avoid being thrown about was nigh impossible. I finally managed to get a seat 3 stops before I got off,but even then,I was nearly pipped at the post by a young man who moved like lightning from the other end of the carriage. It was only because I think hope that he felt guilty about swiping the seat from under an obviously disabled person's nose that he stopped and let me take it.

Dreams16 · 31/10/2017 21:17

I’d give up my seat for a child or any one who was less able bodied than myself and agree maybe it wasn’t because the child couldn’t stand but because they couldn’t hold onto the pole safely or that the mother didn’t want to risk her child being knocked about by other passengers

Spangles1963 · 31/10/2017 21:24

Also,I wouldn't automatically assume that just because someone stood there and demanded a seat in a loud voice,that they obviously needed one! There was a woman who used to get on my local bus regularly and if there were no seats,would shout from the front of the bus that she needed a seat as she was pregnant/had a bad back/a leg injury/was recovering from an operation etc etc. it was a different reason every time! She wasn't disabled,she was just over-entitled.

reetgood · 31/10/2017 21:32

Why this need to determine if the person is adequately deserving of a seat?

If I am able to offer, why should I not give up my seat? Especially if someone asks? What does it matter if they deserve the seat or not? I am free to offer, or to refuse. If i am able, I will offer because why not? What do I lose if someone else sits in my seat apart from being sat down?

Vinorosso74 · 31/10/2017 21:32

My DD is 7 and I wouldn't ask for a seat on the tube but would try to make sure we stood somewhere she could hold on. When she was younger people would offer seats so I would sit with her on my lap (not sure the MN take on that). I certainly would never demand someone give up a seat.
We tend to use buses more and I always found that easier for getting seats with a small child.

Vinorosso74 · 31/10/2017 21:37

Sorry OP forgot to answer, YANBU.

larrygrylls · 31/10/2017 21:40

Reet,

I find this argument a bit strange. Imagine if you were sitting eating a meal in a fully booked restaurant and a couple came in and asked for your table? A seat on an airplane?

After all, all you lose is one meal or one flight/holiday.

A seat is a possession and, if you are tired and want to sit down and you have the seat, why should you give it up merely because someone asks.

HeteronormativeHaybales · 31/10/2017 21:44

On a London visit with my then 8 and 6yo I was surprised and very touched to be offered seats several times for them on the tube (I hadn't asked). It makes sense. They're fit and healthy but might struggle with being thrown around with abrupt stops etc. I also think it was just simple kindness.

My dc and I always get up on public transport for people clearly less able to stand than us (I would always get up first), and if someone asked us politely ditto. What I do not encourage them to do (and, tbf, nobody has ever expected them to do) is jump up obediently for any adult. The notion of automatic adult authority and privilege over children - of adults being more important than children - is not something I wish to support.

BananasAreGood · 31/10/2017 21:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

reetgood · 31/10/2017 21:52

@larrygrylls it’s not a good comparison. You don’t pay for a seat on public transport (note even on trains you pay for a ticket and reserve a seat). You pay for being transported from a to b. A seat is not a possession.

I think you also misunderstand able and willing. If I don’t feel able to stand, i’m Not going to offer my seat am I?

To not offer my seat because I believe the recipient should be deserving is different to not offering my seat because I am unable.

To me it’s more like whether you offer up your seat in a public space like an airport, or train station. Or perhaps a cafe - I have offered to move tables if a party wants to sit together for example and I’m on my own.

Callaird · 31/10/2017 22:06

I'd give my seat for a 6 year old, probably up to 10. I've been a nanny for 32 years, I know some children as not as coordinated as others.

My current charge is only just 4, incredibly bright but can't walk 3 feet without tripping over something. He loves the tube but the 3 times I have let him stand he has fallen flat on his face, banged his forehead quite badly on a handle and ended up on his bottom. He's not allowed to stand anymore but thankfully people will freely give up their seat for him. I hope this will be the case until he does get some coordination (although I'm not holding out much hope, his mum is pretty uncoordinated and has bruises and scrapes pretty much constantly!)

MargotLovedTom1 · 31/10/2017 22:14

I'm just wondering where she left her toddler in the buggy when she went wandering off down the train asking for, and taking, a seat for her six year old.

southeastdweller · 31/10/2017 22:15

I wouldn't have stood up, doesn't matter if she'd asked. Well, it would if she'd gone to say 'my daughter's disabled' or something, but otherwise no.

MargotLovedTom1 · 31/10/2017 22:15

I beg your pardon - I see there were two women.
Ah well, I think she was out of order to ask really (on the face of it).

Thymeout · 31/10/2017 22:31

She could have stood near the buggy and wedged the child into a corner. That's what I did. Now, if I need one of the priority seats, I ask whoever's sitting in them if I could have the seat, pointing at the notice to explain. I just say 'sorry' with a smile.

iwishihadmorehoursintheday · 31/10/2017 23:01

I guess without talking to the mum, you have no idea what hidden physical needs the child may have had. I'd give up my seat for anyone that asked, unless there was a very good reason I needed no to sit down! I presume if they ask, they need

SomewhatIdiosyncratic · 31/10/2017 23:36

At 6, places to hold on securely are limited and children may be tired so they may be less able to stand safely than adults. (As a short adult it can still be tough trying to reach overhead grips. Having my head unpleasantly below shoulder height of most other adults contributes a lot to my claustrophobia too)

A PP has reminded me that I often used to end up on a stranger's lap if my mum couldn't get a seat for us to share, so that's a lost option in modern society. I have bunched up on bench seats on buses to make extra space for another child, but that's not an option where arm rests define each seat.

I did recently make a bee line for a seat on a busy train so that I could perch my 6yo on one knee and my 4yo on the other. Having them wobbling around standing on a 50 minute journey would have been difficult after a long day traipsing around a city.

The odds are for the mother making a reasonable request rather than just being a CF.

PurplePipp · 01/11/2017 07:21

I often give up my seat for children. They are fidgety and struggle with standing on train journeys of any length length!

That said, I've been taking DSD into London semi frequently since she was 4. We have always stood and I wouldn't expect anyone to give up their seat for her (although it would be appreciated). She struggles to remember to hold on so she will get distracted talking to me, let go of the pole and nearly fall over. I'm constantly reminding her to hold on and she's 7.

Bahhhhhumbug · 01/11/2017 09:15

I still don't get why the mum didn't give the seat next to DD that came free to the 60 he old woman who had stood up for her child to sit down. Unless lve misunderstood that was very rude.

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