Independent Catalonia...

[littlebird7]

Are we cheering from the rooftops delighted that they finally got their independence? Or shocked and sad for our Spanish friends have such a huge split in their amazing country?

Or do we feel both emotions at once?

I am shocked and but knew it was coming, could see it was heading that way when 700 companies moved in one week....

Over to you

I am a Catalan and I have learnt Welsh. I speak Spanish and Catalan fluently and Spanish is my first language, if that makes a difference.

The attitude of some posters re minority languages stinks.

I was talking to a friend that is from Barcelona and works in the r&d of the university. She’s told me only 4 out of her 10 colleagues know catalán ....

My other murcian friend that has been living for 10 years in bcn and doesn’t know catalán must also struggle , weird as she’s got a job. Same as a Basque friend that just moved to Barcelona for work and my cousin who worked there for 5 years.

Also my tarragonan friend who doesn’t know catalán despite he was born in Catalonia is working
None of them know catalán but can understand it and all work.

Weird thought if you didn’t know the language you’d be unemployed !

babybarrister

www.lavanguardia.com/vangdata/20151211/30739288411/mapa-interactivo-extranjeros-municipios-catalunya.html

Not sure if you understand Spanish properly

1 million foreigners in Catalonia , main nationality is people from marroco that are the 20%.
Then Romanian , chinese , Italian , Pakistan.

Sorry, I just didn’t see the point of putting those news to enforce the point of million Latinos in Catalonia when that news doesn’t say so.

Regarding the vote, Same % of Europeans under an European passport who had the right to vote in Brexit.> 0. This is not something that the Catalonian government has decided , it’s some European rule which says you’re not allowed to vote in general elections / referendum unless you’ve got the passport of that country.

Latinos are under a working visa in Spain or with a resident permission, they’re not permanent citizens. Those that are permanent have been over 5 years and have a Spanish passport therefore have got the right to vote.

Anyway the vote has been declared illigal so why continue arguing about who should have voted?

Now that the problem has been sorted by cancelling the independence everything will be amazing in Spain , no more independence issues , no more corruption, no more police hitting people like in 2011, no more cuts in health and education, Spain will be 1st country all around the world in everything , Can’t wait to go back. What the world has seen now about Spain and its government the Spaniards have been suffering it for many years, these aren’t news for us.

Hopefully one day people like Ada Colau or Manuela Carmena will be the PM, then, Spain will be a good country , til then it’ll be same shit year after year.

Nothing else to say about my country, enjoy it while you are there , citizens are amazing (I don’t care what they support ) shame the politicians aren’t.

Catalonia is a part of Spain many of whose inhabitants speak Catalan in preference to Spanish.

Why should those who don’t be turned into foreigners in their own country?

What ohtoblazes with Elvira said about the El Pais
I grew up on Girona, my lefty parents used to El Pais. I've had to stop reading it as it's just shockingly rabidly anti Catalan! Rwally quite shocking

Apologies for typos
In Girona

I second most of what toomuchtimereadingthreads and BCNchicahave said so far. My top bullet points would be:
1)Rajoy and Puigdemont both complete idiots,
2)after the 'indicative non binding consultation' which was held three years ago, Rajoy should have permitted a proper referendum to take place. With a proper No campaign, and according to polls the result would have been Remain,
3)really how many times can someone ask for dialogue and discussion only to be told
No? As in, yes the referendum was illegal, but dear god what were they supposed to do at that stage?
4)the police brutality during the 1st Oct referendum was... horrifying, heart breaking, strangely not that surprising.
5)I've never been a supporter of independence for Catalonia, I grew up here and had the privilege of experiencing 99% peaceful cohabitation of Catalan and Spanish language use (at school, in the street, etc). There is no denying the cultural identity, history etc but I have never seen the need for a separate country
6)Spain /Rajoy's response have done more to galvanise the independence vote than any Catalan politician ever did!
7)no idea where we go from here. It's a mess. I have low expectations: if we come out at the other end with a minimum of violence I will be happy

Are the cultural differences between Catalan and the rest of Spain huge ? In my head I'm trying to relate it to the UK which may be incomparable. Are they similar to the differences between England and Wales for example or Geordies and Cockneys as another example ?

This is the list of the “rights of foreigners to vote” all around the world.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote

Isn’t anyone else wondering why people are still allowing major constitutional changes to be pushed through by 1 referendum set with the ‘win’ at 50%? Look at the utter mess Brexit is shaping up to be, the dodgy history of referenda...

Yes, Spain should’ve either allowed a legal referendum or bought off moderates with tax concessions but on the whole, we appear to have learned nothing.

The test should be higher, we should be voting on a concrete plan.

How much of the vibrant Catalan economy will remain of it is outside the EU for a period?

babybarrister your posts are about municipal/ local elections, it would be like people in the UK voting for their local government councillors. A referendum would come under the umbrella of a regional or national election.

Your post upthread seems to suggest that unregistered immigrants should be allowed to vote. I don't think that's the case anywhere in the world. Surely the basis for a vote should be the electoral roll?

Anyway what difference would this make? Most people seem to think that in a legal referendum the majority would vote remain. Or they would have, up to October 1st. Rajoy has done more for the Catalan independence movement than anybody else imo!

People keep going on latinos didnt get a vote but no one thought it was wrong that the 3 million eu people didnt get a vote in our eu referendum

@babybarrister the 1st sentence says it all MUNICIPAL , The referendum wasn’t municipal but regional. Same way I (Spanish) can’t vote in the Brexit referendum or general elections (Theresa May - Jeremy Corbyn and so) but I can vote in the municipal elections of the uk. In Spain I can vote for the MP ( Rajoy) but I can’t vote in my municipal elections.

Your link from el país is from 2006.
This one is from 2017
www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2017/09/30/59cfc25746163f65338b460e.html
Sumarize : in 2014 there was a legal non binding referendum and everyone with the right to vote (including the inmigrants) could exercise it. This was done by Artur Mas (same party as Puigdemont). In 2017 anyone that could vote in the regional elections were allowed to vote(this is the Spanish law)

And no , someone that is not properly registered won’t be allowed to vote not in Catalonia , nor in USA nor anywhere else.

Election there today. Turnout at 1PM was slightly lower than at that time in 2015 in pro Independence areas and slightly higher in anti independence areas.

Need to remember that us spaniards normally vote on Sundays and not Thursdays.
Most of the people will be working today therefore that's why so far it's a little bit lower than 2015. I'm sure by the end of the day it'll be similar to 2015.

It probably end up higher- The difference in area's stats are probably more relevant.

Yeah few friends have mentioned they had long queues to go in this morning

Also worth mentioning that the vote from abroad is higher than ever. Tho speaking from experience sometimes it’s not worth sometimes the effort as most of the times it doesn’t reach.