Independent Catalonia...

[littlebird7]

Are we cheering from the rooftops delighted that they finally got their independence? Or shocked and sad for our Spanish friends have such a huge split in their amazing country?

Or do we feel both emotions at once?

I am shocked and but knew it was coming, could see it was heading that way when 700 companies moved in one week....

Over to you

Sad. It's going to mean a Madrid takeover. The whole thing is ridiculous and not what a lot of us want.

I see the Catalonian majority who reject 'independence' having a voice in an organised peaceful vote on the issue, and peace and the EU continuing to thrive.

It's going to mean a Madrid takeover
It's the capital of the country and the seat of government!

And let me be clear. Catalonia people did NOT vote for independence. A minority did.

woman

are you working for the Spanish government or are you Russian? I don't think anyone here knows what you are babbling on about.

BCN

So do you suppose Catalonia are just going to stand there quietly and allow the army and Madrid to move in?

A lot of us would be glad to see Puigdemont and his cronies out.

No, there will be trouble. The separatists shout loud. The whole thing is a mess.

So you support the removal by force? At the expense of the innocents that will hurt or possibly killed?

I have lived in Spain long enough to have a handle on the language and judging by your name I assume you are Spanish so you are in a strong position to tell us how you feel about this happening to your country.

BCN - Catalonians hate Madrid more than they want a unified Spain. Even pro-Spanish people will now support independance.

Flattered by your intimations littlebird. I thought it was bad practice on mums net to ask personal questions?

I just can't see this ending well. The referendum didn't even have a 50% turnout.

There isn't currently much appetite for independence in Euskadi. Most here are watching Catalonia with raised eyebrows.

You can't declare independence on an illegal referendum that only one side voted in! Especially given the disparity between the result and the many previous opinion polls. I don't know the answer though. It's a mess.

My sympathy for separatists is limited a little by a very vocal Catalan acquaintance who boasted on facebook about voting three times and calling international a hospital to report himself as having a sprained wrist (a lie! to up the numbers of referendum wounded. He is a twat though, doesn't even live there and traveled there especially.

What Donostia said. There is no political, legal or constitutional mandate for independence in Catalonia. Interesting on your FB friend's 'injuries'

So you support the removal by force? At the expense of the innocents that will hurt or possibly killed?

Of course not, where did I say that?

Well you said you will be glad to see them out, just wondered how that might be achieved? Given they are unlikely just to go quietly having fought for so long for independence?

Also wondered why Madrid didn't do more to avoid this crisis?

RavingRoo You're not wrong, and the way Madrid handled the vote was disgusting. The way the police behaved was beyond awful, I think both sides agree on that.

Worried about this to be honest.

Spanish PM has dissolved Catalonian parliament.

@woman11017 how do you how Catalonians don’t want independence ? In the last elections the pro parties obtained a 48% of the votes , the pro union ones obtained a %15 , and don’t tell me about the silent majority , if people can’t be arsed to go to vote then... it’s not other people’s fault.

Spain is against allowing the referendum cuz according to the Spanish constitution if Spain is one and undivisible. For allowing a referendum it’d mean changing this law, and many pro union people that live in the rest of Spain would get furious if Rajoy would allow it and would not vote him again so he’s happy to manipulate the rest of the country as he’s long given up on basques and Catalonians (out of 130 seats they only got 9 )

My question is, what the hell is he going to do ? Just ignore the problem as if nothing happened ? 40 years ago there was a civil war. Under 10 years ago ETA was disolved, does he prefer ignoring a social problem and go back to those years ? Cuz that’s the way is going to.

@ravingroo basques won’t get the referendum. 10 years ago we tried and we found the same closed doors as Catalonia is facing nowadays. The current basque government is quite “friend” with the Spanish government so won’t try at all to seek independence. There is another party which is the pro separatist one that doubt will ever get the Basque elections and only them could ever perform the referendum , and if they did they’d be forbidden like years ago were.

This is not something that has been created in the last year like brexit could have been , this is something coming from centuries that the central government has always avoided and ignored until has become unbearable. It’s affecting Spanish economy but as long as Spanish government can continue stealing the money from the Spaniards then... they don’t give a toss

BCN

So if both sides agree it was handled badly and the police behaved terribly why haven't the government done more to find a resolution for this? It would not have been hard to sit down to talks, consider options for referendums/further devolved powers etc. Rather than simply back Catalonia into a corner? Perhaps they were looking for the showdown one wonders?

Yes, I think Puigdemont is an idiot, using the Catalan people and pushing his own agenda. I will be glad to see Puigdemont out, but I certainly did not say hurt or kill people.

The Catalan people do not want independence. Puigdemont's numbers don't add up really.

A big problem is Puigdemont pushing his own agenda, and dressing it up as him being reasonable. He's as bad a Rajoy.

BCN

So how will you stop the people being hurt as they have said over and over they will defend the Catalonian leaders and government to the end? There is no way to protect them is there....there is no way to remove him gently and without force.

I am confused, in some ways you seem to support the plight of the people in Catalonia and are clearly in disagreement with the abuse they suffered, and yet you are happy to see their leader removed?

BCNChica isn’t Rajoy and idiot as well ? Doesn’t he push his own agenda ? Wished he was in prison as well for all the stolen money

I can understand why you don't want your country divided, I can understand how difficult this is for you.

What I don't understand is why you are still supporting Madrid's stance and removing him given that they have dealt with this in such an appalling manner. They voted for him as a leader, and he should stay and all must sit down to find some solution no?

Every country all over the world will be shocked to see this happening in the middle of Europe, in a democracy and in this century.