Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Independent Catalonia...

177 replies

littlebird7 · 27/10/2017 15:31

Are we cheering from the rooftops delighted that they finally got their independence? Or shocked and sad for our Spanish friends have such a huge split in their amazing country?

Or do we feel both emotions at once?

I am shocked and but knew it was coming, could see it was heading that way when 700 companies moved in one week....

Over to you

OP posts:
BCNChica · 27/10/2017 21:14

No, sorry, tonight I don't want to.

babybarrister · 27/10/2017 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhtoblazeswithElvira · 27/10/2017 21:20

Try La Vanguardia for a very moderate, slightly right of centre, Catalan perspective.

Or the 5 minute videos by Iñaki Gabilondo (I think they are on El Pais online!). Or Reuters.

I can only think of those, life in Spain is hopelessly politicised!

Original poster
littlebird7 · 27/10/2017 21:29

Doramaybe

The situation is so dangerous, so volatile and absolutely no one can envisage how it will end. A nightmare for so many reasons.

From the outside without the same emotion, we are all calling for the adults to arrive... but is must be stomach curdling given the history of Spain to be here in 2017. Even I felt sick didn't you?

OP posts:
toomuchtimereadingthreads2016 · 27/10/2017 21:36

Without wanting to write another essay, it is a nightmare indeed. It has been a nightmare to see friends, family, neighbours, colleagues arguing over independence. To see the separatists monopolise the city with flags, posters, propaganda. To feel that unionists are afraid to speak out, as so many are being carried along on the separatist wave. It is a nightmare to keep your children inside the house on referendum day, as you can see from your balcony, hear from the window, and watch on the television as the brute bully national police take batons to the heads of people sat on the floor with their arms in the air. It is a nightmare when a regional strike is called and businesses, schools, gov offices are closed... to receive messages from acquaintances who you might have considered friends, asking for volunteers to take cars and block the motorways into Barcelona at five a.m. to form picket lines. Its a nightmare to read comments on the news section of articles about the catalan process and feel so much hatred from other parts of Spain. A nightmare to have everyone lumped together and be blamed or stigmatised the same as the hardcore separatists. A nightmare to wonder what will happen to your childrens catalan schools under 155. A nightmare to see that Rajoys approval ratings have increased after he gave his approval to the violent measures used, and the refusal to talks. To see that he didn't even bother to lie and bring out the old "we're sorry and we dont condone violence" line for the television reporters.

A nightmare to have your husband working a night shift, knowing he will be crossing Barcelona in the small hours and not knowing whether to be more worried about him meeting separatist celebratory crowds, unity protesting crowds, the police, or the army.

PoppyPopcorn · 27/10/2017 21:57

Knowing what we went through in Scotland in the run-up to our (legal) referendum and how it was so divisive, I can only imagine what the people living in Catalunya are going throught. Just awful.

I think there has been ill-feeling from some people in the rest of Spain for quite some time. The summer which Barcelona hosted the OLympics I was in a small town near Burgos living with a host family who were your typical middle income family. When Catalan was spoken in the opening ceremony of the Olympics they were outraged, "esos malditos catalanes", who do they think they are, this is Spain not Catalunya, they should be ashamed of themselves. And that was 25 years ago - resentment has only grown since then.

woman11017 · 27/10/2017 21:58

Flowers toomuchtimereadingthreads2016 and BCNChica hoping peace will resume, soon. I like what the poster Ada Colau Ballano writes:
But also, above all, I'll be working to feminize politics so that empathy becomes an everyday practice that allows us to build broad consensuses through which diversity can become our greatest treasure
I have a feeling that the desire for peace will win.

PoppyPopcorn · 27/10/2017 22:01

Toomuchtime and BCNchica - I hear you. We had it on a smaller scale and the divisions have still not healed.

Un abrazo muy fuerte.

babybarrister · 27/10/2017 22:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
littlebird7 · 27/10/2017 22:09

Too much time

Your post really moved me. I could feel the pain and worry you are going through.
You are a nation with big hearts and strength. You will come through all of this. Time will provide answers. In the end everyone will eventually come to the table to talk.Keep your children and husband safe.

OP posts:
GherkinSnatch · 27/10/2017 22:35

I agree Poppy. I know how I feel in Scotland whenever IndyRef rears it's ugly head, I can't imagine how much worse it must feel for those in Catalunya.

toomuchtime Flowers

Violetparis · 28/10/2017 09:02

Thanks for posting toomuchtime I hope your husband got home ok. The news reports here tend to focus on those who want independence and we see/hear very little from those who oppose it or are concerned. Your post is very worrying but also really helpful and interesting. Flowers

Tealdeal747 · 28/10/2017 09:15

I see the unionists are out in force on this thread.

user1471596238 · 28/10/2017 09:22

Unfortunately this situation just highlights the way that society in general has become so polarised. People are less interested in compromise and reaching concensus on issues and more determined to impose their own views on society and politics. People have a right to self determination but equally, there needs to be respect for the law and a country's constitution. Unfortunately, whilst the legality (or to my knowledge the lack thereof) of the referendum served to undermine it and there does seem to be dispute over quite how popular the idea of full independence is; the Spanish government reacted in a completely unacceptable way on polling day. What we now need to see is dialogue and a middle ground to try and resolve the situation peacefully. Clearly only a madly optimistic person would see that as possible at this time. Personally, I am not a massively keen person on the idea of Europe splintering as it is not a magic wand that will sweep away all our problems. If anything, the more independent states there are, the more potential for conflict there is.

Lucyyati · 28/10/2017 09:26

I haven't read all the posts but..

scottish referendum was only carried out after they got permission from the House of Commons. I.e. The government agreed to have the referendum. Totally legal.

in Catalan the government refused to let them have a referendum (mistake by Spanish government), but they did one anyway- which is classified as illegal. Only those who didn't care about the legality voted. A big number did not vote.

It's like MANCHESTER saying want independence from the UK, can we vote? The parliament says no, but they do anyway.

A) it's wrong for one part of the country to just decide they want independence.
B) the main government should do something early to make them feel listened to somehow. Not just completely shut them down.

So yes, not hopeful about the peace in Spain

lljkk · 28/10/2017 09:51

There's a deep conservatism in Spain that likes authoritarianism & wants to see a harsh crackdown. Suspicions of fascist tendencies by some.

babybarrister · 28/10/2017 10:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DaisyLand · 28/10/2017 11:42

Children aren’t forbidden to use Spanish in the school ! One of the best Spanish levels are in Catalonia ! They get Much better marks that in many other areas of Spain!
I speak with everyone from there in Spanish , some of my Catalonian friends born and grown in Catalonia don’t even know Catalonian.
Just because it’s happened in a few schools doesn’t mean Spanish is forbidden.

And no, road marks are in both languages, a minority will be maybe in Catalonian but to be honest I can understand their language by reading it so can’t see so much the repression against People that only speak Spanish.

Many countries are proud of their diversity of culture , of languages and so. Spain is different, Spain seems like we all must speak speak Spanish and agree with our government just as when Franco had power (who by the way forbid any language apart from Spanish )

We might agree with Catalonia’s or not, but they’ve shown to the world how narrow minded the government is and how they won’t listen to the people (even those that want to vote no In a legal referendum)

Too much time I hope your husband is ok. I read that last night many of the pro unity people started breaking things around Barcelona (once again ) and hitting people :(

dratsea · 28/10/2017 12:21

Lucy Man U and Man C will be a bit put out when Barcelona ask to join the premier division.

BCNChica · 28/10/2017 12:24

Toomuch put it perfectly, so much better than I could. Toomuch I hope you husband got home safely. Mine has worked from home this month because I'm too nervous of him being on public transport and having to go on the metro.

Just to address one thing some posters have said. The playground language here is Spanish, in and out of school. The DC have lessons in Spanish and Catalan and as a result have always spoken both fluently. Never have I heard any of their teachers tell them off for speaking Spanish.

BishBoshBashBop · 28/10/2017 12:31

I see the unionists are out in force on this thread.

So people can only have an opinion if it is the same as yours Hmm

BishBoshBashBop · 28/10/2017 12:32

Oh and I am on neither 'side.

I have family in Catalonia. My DH is worried for them at the moment.

Kursk · 28/10/2017 12:40

I have a feeling that this situation will go down a similar road as Chechnya.

I don’t know what the gun laws are in Spain,m? Would it be easy for a Catalonian rebel force to arm itself sufficiently?

Does Spain have the military capacity to fight?

OhtoblazeswithElvira · 28/10/2017 13:27

Blimey Kursk I really cannot see that happening at all Shock

Donostia · 28/10/2017 13:38

I did see a teacher tell off a couple of kids at my sons school for talking on Spanish and not Basque. I had a word with the head about it as i'd be furious if my own son was told off for it as both spanish and basque are foreign languages for him. The head agreed with me, it's a delicate issue.