....to not invite this girl to my daughter's party because she's a nightmare!!!

[smokinhotchilli]

This is so tricky! And all this is new to me so any advice would be great.
My daughter has been friends with a girl called Rose (made up name) for two years. They are both 4. There's a group of kids who have been close since nursery & they have all started school & are in the same class.
Have never been very close to Rose's mum but the girls occasionally meet up at weekends .... Or used to...
Since starting school, Rose has become a bit of a nightmare. According to my daughter, none of the group want to play with her, she hits, shouts, pushes, doesn't listen and is really naughty (all told to me by my daughter & the other kids) and they often tell the teacher .... I've seen Rose doing all of this before & after school.
My daughter is refusing to have her at her birthday party which is really soon & won't invite her. The mum texted to ask what's happening for my daughters birthday...
What would you do?
AIBU to ask the mum if everything is ok at home & mention Rose's behaviour in a gentle & considerate way? And then explain that my daughter doesn't want her at the party? Arghhhhh! Don't want to upset anyone.

Chat to her mum. I doubt she is unaware of thr situation and maybe texting you is an expression of her anxiety about her daughter's social integration rather than expectation on her part. Ask her if she could stay for the party in case Rose struggles.

We have friends who went through something similar with their daughter hitting out for no apparent reason.

It was really difficult and isolating for her parents. They felt they couldn't go to people's houses or take her to to the park as strangers were understandably angry if their daughter hit out at their kids.

We made efforts to keep the relationship going, making arrangements which made us both comfortable.

Their daughter is now a year older, settled in kindergarten and seems to have totally moved on from that phase. She and our DD are thick as thieves and I have a really good friend who knows I stood by her during a difficult time.

Obviously, your priority will be your daughter but you may have the chance to help a fellow mum who may be trying to reach out.

She’s reception, not 14 so of course you influence it. I’d speak to the mum and say that she would like to invite Rose, but could the mum stay as you don’t want to supervise 30 kids. TBH most parents stay in Reception anyway. Then if she misbehaves the mum is there.

OP has already said it's only going to be 5 or 6 children.

Does that change the advice?

Maybe the mum has texted to ask out of desperation as Rose is being excluded from things.

As a mum of a 10 year old ds who is extremely immature for his age, struggles socially and with friendships, and when younger would lash out in frustration, it's heart breaking to see them constantly excluded from parties/play dates.

Don't reply to the mum re: the party. Go ahead with the invitees your DD wants. Make sure any photos of the party aren't on social media for the mum to see. If she asks you again just be bright and breezy and say you were very limited on numbers.

I feel very sorry for Rose. My DS1 sounds similar, he was DX with ASD at 6 and really struggled with friendships but I acknowledge that it wasn't anyone else's job to facilitate his relationships with his classmates.

Is Rose young for the year? As in her birthday is June/July and the rest of the group are a bit older?

I agree with the poster who said to ask her to be kind and invite her but also ask her mum to stay and help keep an eye on her. Just be honest with Rose’s mum, she probably is aware but needs help settling Rose down!

Just read upthread it’s 5 of them, then I probably wouldn’t invite. I thought it was whole class and then I would do the above.

It's a tough one.

My dd was what I can only describe as assulted by another 3 year old when she was thee. He left her bloody and scarred. She is still scared of him now and he would never be around her again. Ever.

On the other hand if it's just a bit of play ground shoving and pushing and a long term play date I'd be inclined to invite her and watch them like a hawk.

YY handygarrotte

If the child was older then Rose's behaviour would be totally unacceptable, but she is 4 years old. Starting reception is very stressful and some children really don't cope well to start with, and young children often express stress in bad behaviour. Give the poor child some slack.

So since starting school Rose's behaviour has changed, and your initially response is to not invite her to the party! You even go on to call her "a bit of a nightmare" at FOUR! Less than 2 months after starting school!!

I am all for considering our child's needs at times like this, but I think you need to understand that this may be an adjustment period for Rose & explain to your daughter the need to be more tolerant!

And this is a very different message to "it's important to be nice".

Exactly.

Your DD doesn’t have to invite Rose to the party but rubbing that in her face would be unkind. Holding it over her as some sort of bait is unkind.

I think you need to understand that this may be an adjustment period for Rose & explain to your daughter the need to be more tolerant!

The OP's daughter is being hit!

How long should she tolerate her bit hit for?

Is being hit after Christmas more painful or damaging to her self esteem than it is now?

Need to be more tolerant of being hit. Wow.

IF you do decide to invite her could you say to her Mum that you would like her to stay to supervise Rose?
I’d text her back and let her know you are finalising details at the moment. There’s nothing worse than texting someone and not getting an answer.
If you decide not to invite her then be prepared for a fall out. If you are close to Roses Mum she may be very hurt by her daughter being excluded.

How is saying you dint like being hit and pushed and called name being outspoken???
And that it automatically means these are girls who have their little 'clan'.

Esp when in that group, we know there are some boys too. What if they don't want Rose there either? Would that be OK then??

In the interests of full disclosure, when ds was in reception, his teacher told me at his parent/meeting that himself and 3 others who went to afterschool together were excluding the other boys from playing with them. She didn't make a fuss (while I nearly had a heart-attack). She tried to settle me down and said that she sees it every year and that they were doing some talks about including everyone at 'circle time' or some such.
I had a pretty gentle but firm chat with ds that evening about including everyone. It was the first and last time his behaviour was called into question. He's now at secondary school and I asked him yesterday, so who is your best friend? 'Oh everyone really....'

Poor little Rose is only a wee tot when you think of it and is only learning. It might well be that she is the child from The Exorcist, but it might be that she's being excluded and is lashing out. It would be cruel to exclude her since she's in the friendship group. It's not like you're excluding a randomer.
I also agree that the text from Mum is possibly because Mum knows only too well how unhappy Rose is and is trying to make things better.

I would also err on the side of kindness

But I would make the Mum stay and supervise her DD . If she does kick off the Mum can witness it close hand and it will open the door for a constructive conversations

I also agree that 4 year olds need to learn about being kind and not excluding people

MarieAntoinettezzz

Is that a response to me? Because I used the term 'outspoken' and 'clique' (which is what I suspect you meant by clan).

If so, then I suggest you read my posts properly.

If not, then I apologise.

I always found it easier with parties not to have the parents of difficult children there! The children responded much better to discipline from someone else: "No, we are not going to play football in the garden now, we are going to sit down and eat our nice tea." And "We don't hit people in this house. Children who hit others have to sit on the sofa and watch the game if they can't be trusted to be kind."

The only failure was the six year old who told me to fuck off. She was walked home quite swiftly.

The only failure was the six year old who told me to fuck off. She was walked home quite swiftly

Also I'm wondering about all those people who say invite her.

What if the b'day party is then a nightmare for the dd and her other friends? What if Rose starts hitting and calling people names?
I assume you are expecting the OP to also deal with that, the coming fall out (because the mum might well say 'how dare you discipline my child! Or you were just too heavy handed) and the upset of the other children at the party who the OP might struggle to protect (as the school is btw).

So whose wellbeing should be coming first? Rose or the other children who the OP will have the responsibility for during the b'day party?

Speak to their teacher op. She will likely know if rose is hurting your dd and others and if your dd is upsetting and excluding her- the whole story.

If it's the former then no I wouldn't invite rose as it's a small number anyway and she will think she's fine to continue hurting your dd. I once was forced to invite someone who I didn't like because she hurt me and nd guess what ? She hurt me on my birthday and couple of my friends. She was going through a hard time I'm sure but all I learnt was to not bother telling my mum these things.

If your daughter is excluding then I would invite rose but only if I knew I could stop my dd being unpleasant.

I don't get the posters who are so full of love for the child who hits and lashes out and nobody wants to have her at the party.
I certainly wouldn't want to see a child like that at my DD's birthday party. I'm not a therapist or a psychologist. My DD is my priority and I certainly wouldn't push her into maintaining a friendship with a girl who is physically hurting her. That's mental.

If you can't handle one renegade 4 year old terror, you shouldn't be having a party imo MarieAntoinette

How awful. Perhaps it’s time to give your daughter a lesson about tolerance and inclusion? 4 year olds don’t hit out because they are just naughty. Other things maybe going on. Excluding her isn’t the answer.

You’ve only really heard the children’s side of this story haven’t you?

I agree with emphasising being kind to your dd. This is a group which has been friends for a while, and it sounds as if Rose's behaviour is only now presenting a problem. Remind your dd of that. Explain in a way she'll understand that she's finding something hard at the moment and that it's important to be kind when our friends are having a hard time. I'd also raise her awareness of the dynamic that's developing with her friends saying 'we don't want Rose' - ask her how she would feel if her friends started doing that to her and explain that this behaviour hurts and may be making Rose worse.

Speak kindly but openly to Rose's mum and tell her dd is finding her friendship with Rose a bit tricky atm and could she please stay at the party to keep an eye on her? You will probably be able to get some indication by observing them at the party of whether/how the mum is dealing with it and perhaps of the source of the behaviour.