....to not invite this girl to my daughter's party because she's a nightmare!!!

[smokinhotchilli]

This is so tricky! And all this is new to me so any advice would be great.
My daughter has been friends with a girl called Rose (made up name) for two years. They are both 4. There's a group of kids who have been close since nursery & they have all started school & are in the same class.
Have never been very close to Rose's mum but the girls occasionally meet up at weekends .... Or used to...
Since starting school, Rose has become a bit of a nightmare. According to my daughter, none of the group want to play with her, she hits, shouts, pushes, doesn't listen and is really naughty (all told to me by my daughter & the other kids) and they often tell the teacher .... I've seen Rose doing all of this before & after school.
My daughter is refusing to have her at her birthday party which is really soon & won't invite her. The mum texted to ask what's happening for my daughters birthday...
What would you do?
AIBU to ask the mum if everything is ok at home & mention Rose's behaviour in a gentle & considerate way? And then explain that my daughter doesn't want her at the party? Arghhhhh! Don't want to upset anyone.

Sorry have added the above in the wrong place.
Your child your decision my dear. Looking back I should have listened to my child. He didn't want a child there and I didn't want the child to feel left out so I convinced my child to invite him. This child ruined my child's birthday by turning on him. So in the future I let my child decide who he wanted at his party.

Rose is 4. 4 year olds are learning about themselves and how to play with others. It will be unlikely she has learned empathy yet or maybe not got to grips with it. I don't think a 4 year old can be labelled as bad news. It is fine that your daughter doesn't want to invite her to her party. I would however be concerned that the children that are invited may say 'we're invited & you're not because you don't play nicely ' because they too ate 4 & haven't quite grasped empathy! Good luck....

If your Dd has said firmly no and why then I’d respect that.

I’m so glad I’m the other side of all this. But I can say with dd1 (who is now 19) that looking back the being nice to everyone no matter how badly they treat you was not a success. I would not be so understanding given the time again.

Smokinhotchilli..... a lot of people may forget this child is 4. If the child was older then I’d agree with you.
I have worked with this age range for 8 years. I also have a daughter of 4. Rose may be going through so much right now. A new School, her friends behaving differently, emotional and social development may be lacking at this age. She may be a terror, but it could be a phase. If it’s not and this continues for the next few years then fine but we all need to remember we are talking about a 4yo.
Personally for a 4yo and prob until quite a lot older I’d invite the whole class or no one, just because it’s not fair. Social groups change like the wind for the next couple of years and you don’t know who will be her next new BFF. When parents approach me to hand out invites I wil only do it if it’s the whole class, I will refuse if it’s a handful. This is actually to all parents. Please can you think about the other children. It’s not nice to see invites handed out and others being left out, asking why they haven’t been invited. They are too young to understand this. Then this will be the topic of convo for the next few days. Children cling to the birthday boy/girl with the hope they’ll get an invite, once again leaving others out. There are also nasty comments thrown about. I’m not at all saying this is your daughter OP but all parents need to be respectful to others. Many parents will say, well I can’t afford the whole class etc and give a variety of excuses, then don’t invite anyone because one day it will be your child and your view will change. Remember I am talking about a 4yo.

Pounts people seem to missing in the rush to cast Rose as a terror/bully/nightmare

1] This behaviour has only started since school
2] There is NO indication that Rose was like this before school (yes, same as number 1, but very few people seem to be aware of this fact!!) Children just don't start hitting out overnight for fun, it's because they aren't coping.
3] Rose & op's daughter have been friends for 2 yrs without incident, and "quite close" according to op
4] Rose's mum knows op well enough to ask what is happening for op's daughter's birthday...that would indicate that Rose has attended prior to this, and that girls get on well enough for it to be expected that Rose will be going
5] Rose's mum could be looking for reassurance after being told by Rose that no one plays with her anymore.

At school with 24 kids to one adult this behaviour can occur. At a party with adults invited so a ratio of I'd guess around 10 adults to 6 children it should be very easy to ensure no one is hurt and that the party isn't ruined by a violent child. It might be worth mentioning the mum your daughter is concerned about it so she watches closely. The play date is a good idea but I think the addition of a 3rd child is going to create a bit of an odd one out situation that may exacerbate roses behaviour. A lot of 4 year olds struggle with 3's and this is ok!

for a 4yo and prob until quite a lot older I’d invite the whole class or no one

Unrealistic for many people.

Stilletosareanono. It’s not unrealistic. Nothing wrong with going to the park for a party. Like I said invite no one at that age then. When they are older it’s different.

Many parents will say, well I can’t afford the whole class etc and give a variety of excuses, then don’t invite anyone because one day it will be your child and your view will change.

I must have misunderstood your post because it sounds like you are saying that unless parents can afford/want to invite the entire class of 30 four/five year olds, then their child shouldn't have a party at all. And I'm sure you aren't actually saying that!

Mydearannie... nope, I said there are alternatives like the park. I understand at this time of year it may be cold. But you could invite all to any activity and parents can pay for their children. What I actually meant was that for a 4yo who has just started school there’s nothing wrong with having a family and close friend party. Your child will not notice the difference. It is so unfair to invite a select few at that age. I am telling you as someone who witnesses these children who are hurt. It’s so unpleasant. Like I said when they are older and have established friendship groups and are emotionally and socially developed then fine. But for a 4yo it’s unacceptable. Would you like it if your child was left out from a party. I doubt it. If you are then I’m sure your child will have a much harder time dealing with it. No matter how much you explain, they are too young to make that link.

In the nursery/reception/year 1 that I work in we have a policy. Either all or we do not support you in handing out invites. We do this for a reason. It’s unkind!

Not everyone can afford, or has the patience or confidence to do a whole class party. Fair enough if schools/nurseries can’t hand out invites otherwise but that does not mean other types of parties are not appropriate.

It doesn’t have to be about money and parents being their children so you are not responsible for 30 odd kids. Why not go to a soft play. Parents pay a fiver each for their kids and parents sit and have a chat while the children are playing? Is that so difficult??

"Either all or we do not support you in handing out invites. We do this for a reason. It’s unkind!"

Sounds very sensible.

Wow just made it through all the posts. You’re doing the right thing meeting up today. Hope you get some clarity. I feel for Rose as further exclusion may make her act up even more creating a vicious circle. My DD has a boy ‘rose’ in her class. Apparently no one wants to play with him. I asked her if he was sad about that and she came to conclusion he was and she didn’t think that was very nice so next time she would play with him. It’s by no means fixed but apparently he is behaving much better most of the time now he is included.

I worry about the posters saying override the child’s wishes, yes friendships are fickle at this age but it’s her birthday and it’s just one of those things. What does it teach the child about how her mum values what she says if she’s ignored here?

I sorry to say but leaving out a 4 year old is cruel. My sons Autistic and I remember so called friends not inviting him to bday party’s I was upset and a nervous wreck as thought ppl talking about him/ me. What are you teaching your 4 year old? I’d try to guide her and in a nice Mum way insist that she invites her. This is how bullying starts sorry!!

Parents pay a fiver each for their kids and parents sit and have a chat while the children are playing? Is that so difficult??

Straight forward for a non birthday get together which Roses mum could arrange

Birthday girl can have any day she wishes and if that's 6 friends at home so be it

Wow Someonessnack! Where do you live? A softplay party where we live is £18 per head, and so no, I cannot afford a softplay party for the whole class, and certainly would not pay to attend one. They are grim places to be endured more than enjoyed.
The statement that parties do not need to be about money is naive at best, but massively deluded.

Yes difficult children have to be included at school, but I see no reason why they have to continue to torment others out of school.
My child has one day a year about them, and on that one day they should feel safe and happy.
So I could not support the idea that children whose behaviour regularly upsets mine should come to their party.
I started off softly, inviting as many as I could, but now have learnt that poor behaviour rarely improves. Often gets hidden at school, but there are children I would never invite a second time.

I think schools should simply ban all conversation about birthdays and parties, and not support invitations, birthday sweets etc.

So many people putting Rose's feelings before the actual birthday girls.

Its not ops dd's job to teach rose how to behave and certainly not at her own party.

So many people missing the fact that only 5 or 6 of the whole class are invited. Op isnt inviting every child except rose.

I cant see how anyone who's child comes home from school saying x hit me and scratched me and called me names on a regular basis and anyone on here saying "oh they must be having trouble at school let's invite them for tea" its ridiculous.

There are plenty times kids wont get invited to parties its not compulsory.

I am sure school teacher is aware of whats happening and has spoken to the mother about it. Its not ops job to tell the mother exactly why rose isnt invited. Should she go around every mother in the class of the kids that arent invited and tell them why?

Its her dds birthday she doesnt have to invite anyone who hurts her at school.

No, Heartsandunicorns, I don’t think it is cruel in this instance, and I’m saying this even though my DD1 has Attachment Disorder and has been excluded by girls in her class over and over again. It’s hard for her, of course (especially with having a very popular little sister), but if the OP is only inviting a few children then she can be selective in who she invites. And it is normal for friendship groups to change once they start school.

If Rose is hurting the OP’s DD as much as it appears, why should she have to put up with it at her birthday party, which is supposed to be her special day?

If she was inviting the whole class bar Rose that would be mean, as a lot of posters are agreeing on.

But, as I have said, I do believe that the OP should be honest with Rose’s mum and not fob her off. It’s great that you’ve arranged this play date, OP, though 3 children can be a difficult number at that age. But it will give you a chance to observe the interaction between your DD and Rose, and your DD might start warming to her once again.

some
My kids and i decide who comes to our parties not a nursey teacher/school teacher. I would hand out invites another way. I have never had teachers hand out invites for my kids anyway they do it themselves.

There have been several kids at my kids primary school i wouldnt have invited if you paid me as they were truly awful to the other kids.

What if the birthday child really doesn't like going to soft play?

What if there are other children she wants to invite - family members, neighbours, friends from out of school activities?

At what age is the birthday child - any child, not just op's dd - allowed to say what type of party s/he would like and who s/he would like to invite?

Rose is one of about 25 children who are not being invited to the party. Are they all being 'excluded'?

When my Ds was in reception he had about 20 school friends from over the 2 classes . He had good friends in both classes and classes were very fluid . I would of had to invite 60 children or 30 and miss out the friends he played with every day.