....to not invite this girl to my daughter's party because she's a nightmare!!!

[smokinhotchilli]

This is so tricky! And all this is new to me so any advice would be great.
My daughter has been friends with a girl called Rose (made up name) for two years. They are both 4. There's a group of kids who have been close since nursery & they have all started school & are in the same class.
Have never been very close to Rose's mum but the girls occasionally meet up at weekends .... Or used to...
Since starting school, Rose has become a bit of a nightmare. According to my daughter, none of the group want to play with her, she hits, shouts, pushes, doesn't listen and is really naughty (all told to me by my daughter & the other kids) and they often tell the teacher .... I've seen Rose doing all of this before & after school.
My daughter is refusing to have her at her birthday party which is really soon & won't invite her. The mum texted to ask what's happening for my daughters birthday...
What would you do?
AIBU to ask the mum if everything is ok at home & mention Rose's behaviour in a gentle & considerate way? And then explain that my daughter doesn't want her at the party? Arghhhhh! Don't want to upset anyone.

Perhaps have a discussion with the mum and mention that kids are having an issue with her child. Then politely say she can bring her kid to the party and could she please supervise. Also if you let your daughter decide to exclude someone because they are different, then you are teaching her that it is ok to discriminate. Kid could have ADHD or lack of social skills. You will end up breaking a childs spirit if everyone had your attitude to exclude her.

If it’s a class party it would be wrong to exclude anyone. If it’s a pick your friends party that’s fine just tell her mum that. “I’m doing a small gathering with family and close friends”

It seems that this behaviour has been going on for a while. How come the school hasn't tackled it?

I am all for children deciding who they want to invite but I just can't get over all the other friends saying "we don't want her there". I would love to hear the other side of this story!

I also agree with a previous poster who pointed out that children need to learn the natural consequences of their behaviour: Be mean/bossy/unkind on a play date = don’t get a party invitation.

This and variations have been all over the thread and I'm

How the fuck can Rose (or her mother) learn that lesson if nobody explicitly tells them that that's why Rose hasn't been invited? Prevaricating with texts about "DD has chosen other children" or "just a couple this time" only tell her that she hasn't made the cut, but not why.

Op, have you replied to her yet?

I think that's perfect solution

Agree with keepservingthedrinks suggestion - invite Rose but tell mum she has to be there

No, this is not a tricky situation. She is 4. Explain to your daughter than sometimes nice people make bad decisions and it would be a nice thing to invite her. It’s a possibility that your daughter and her friends are leaving this child out and Rose feels uncomfortable. Seriously? This is a 4 year old! It is not your place to ask how their Home life is. Maybe Rose doesn’t like her new school? There are endless possibilities. Don’t leave this child out.

Rose isn't being excluded because she's different. It isn't wearing glasses or not having the right shoes. They are keeping away from her because she is hitting them and calling them names. People generally don't want to be hurt and teased so they are acting entirely reasonably.
I don't think the mum needs to be told why her dd isn't invited. If the op has seen her dd's behaviour I'm sure she is also aware of it. And if she isn't being invited to parties or play dates it should be clear enough why.
If the op did raise Rose hitting her dd what's to say her mum won't be up in arms that the children are leaving her out rather than accepting it like some people are on here?

To the people who think the op would be 'mean' to leave Rose out if your child came home from school telling you that another child was hitting, pushing and scratching them and others and calling them names and shouting at them would you insist your child keep playing with that child? Because I would tell them to keep out of their way but obviously I live on another planet because then my child would be the bully in some people's eyes????

When my little girl was bullied by some one in her class she became quite withdrawn an would cry for no reason until she told me that she couldn't get away from the child , that's when I knew as her mum she couldn't stick up for her self an I went into school , eldest sd went through a period of taking it in turns to be the leader of her group of freinds,
It's the impact it has on your child that's important. It's not leaving the other child
Out it's recognising that going against what your child is requesting is actually colluding with the bully and not validating her feelings.
But i understand it's not nice to think of a child being left out , however I'm sure that would not be the case if she was nice to your daughter.

Just imagine your daughter is Rose. How would you feel if she was left out? She is 4! Teach your daughter kindness and how you don't leave people out. You sound very confident that this couldn't ever be you or your child.

If my daughter was Rose I would think it was a shame that she was going through a phase where she isn't being kind to others and I would work with her to change her behaviour so that she could make friends more easily.
What I wouldn't do would be to try and embarrass the mother of one of the children she is hitting into inviting her to their party.

Again, poster after poster feeling sorry for poor Rose and nobody seeming to give a shit about the actual birthday child who is also only young.

Can all the posters banging on about teaching Rose a lesson please read the following link and educate yourself on the social/emotional development of a 4 year old. Rose’s mum and teacher should be helping her with her development not some other mother.

www.webmd.com/parenting/preschooler-emotional-development

In particular;

“Three- and 4-year-old children may use hitting, biting, or pushing as a way to solve conflicts. They simply don't understand the difference between appropriate and inappropriate interactions yet. It's your job to teach your child that there are right and wrong ways to express emotions and resolve problems with others.”

For goodness sakes, I can’t believe some of the posts here. ‘Not kind to leave Rose out’? OP, it’s your daughter’s birthday party, a day she’s been waiting for for a whole year. Let her decide whom she wants there. She and certainly you don’t want the day spoilt by some kid’s misbehaviour; you’ll have enough on your hands anyway. If it was a random outing for the friend group and you left Rose out, that would be unkind. But this is your daughter’s birthday, which you organise for HER - not for Rose, not for Rose’s mother. It’s up to your daughter and you whom you invite and there should be no need for apologies for excluding anyone. Although your daughter should expect not to be invited to Rose’s birthday in the future. And that’s fine too.

Can a child of 4 bully. They can show emotional distress but a 4 year old being called a bully. The op has not called her a bully she has shown empathy. We have to learn to get along with people whether we like them or not.

How is a 4 year old a bully. The bitch bollocks that I listened to and you know what there children ended up alone. The gossiping fuckers ended up worse because they judged.

To add one comment to my post above - my point is that a birthday party is not the time and place to be helping someone else’s child with their emotional and developmental issues. If you want to go that route, organise some playdates to that effect. But your daughter’s borthday party is meant for enjoyment, not child therapy.

The bitch bollocks that I listened to and you know what there children ended up alone. The gossiping fuckers ended up worse because they judged.

What??

Completely derailing but.....all those folk saying 'it's 13 pages, it's 17 pages...' am I the only who chooses 'show 100 messages per page' ??

So a group of 4 year olds are trying g to ostracise their friend and you are backing them up? Kids can be cruel and often get it wrong. As an adult I don’t believe you should be encouraging this kind of behaviour in this age group. It would be extremely childish of you to leave her out because believe me you could have this situation completely wrong.

Hi MN
Have been out all day & have just seen there are quite a few more posts here Thanks for all your completely diverse opinions, pieces of advice & thoughts. Wow.
Had a chat with my daughter again today & she once again is adamant that she doesn't want Rose at her party. She has, however, agreed to meet up in the park tomorrow with Rose & one other child (we got invited along so opportunity to observe the dynamics) & after this I'm going to ask my daughter what we'll do about inviting Rose.
A relatively dull update but with 500 posts (was expecting about 10 to date!) someone might be interested....
Many thanks again everyone