....to not invite this girl to my daughter's party because she's a nightmare!!!

[smokinhotchilli]

This is so tricky! And all this is new to me so any advice would be great.
My daughter has been friends with a girl called Rose (made up name) for two years. They are both 4. There's a group of kids who have been close since nursery & they have all started school & are in the same class.
Have never been very close to Rose's mum but the girls occasionally meet up at weekends .... Or used to...
Since starting school, Rose has become a bit of a nightmare. According to my daughter, none of the group want to play with her, she hits, shouts, pushes, doesn't listen and is really naughty (all told to me by my daughter & the other kids) and they often tell the teacher .... I've seen Rose doing all of this before & after school.
My daughter is refusing to have her at her birthday party which is really soon & won't invite her. The mum texted to ask what's happening for my daughters birthday...
What would you do?
AIBU to ask the mum if everything is ok at home & mention Rose's behaviour in a gentle & considerate way? And then explain that my daughter doesn't want her at the party? Arghhhhh! Don't want to upset anyone.

If you’re dd doesnt want this girl at her party and says she shouts at her and hits her it’s more than likely she won’t be too keen on a play date either.

If you want to test the waters you could arrange a play date in the park and 'bump into' Rosie that way there's no pressure and you can 'receive a text' if you need to leave

Francis not forcing her to have a playdate! Will discuss with her tomorrow (we discuss a lot of things)
Greentulips (have liked your posts a lot btw) - Yep, outdoor play date definitely. And 'running into' Rose a good idea - thanks

I haven’t read all 17 pages . However this is not a whole class party and friendships are very fluid at this age . My Ds went to school with 4 children from nursery but had no interest in any of them . If I could only pick 5 friends to my party I would resent inviting someone who was pushing me about . The concern for me is what her friends are saying . I think it is important your Dd know she can like who she wants even if her friends don’t. I think the play date is a good idea . I have a friend who is a parent at my ds’s school .we are closer friends than the kids and that is ok too

Since it's a small mixed party I would not invite Rose,partly because this is what your daughter wants and partly because it would be unkind to Rose to get invite her to play with 5 other children who don't like her.
I would simply explain to the mum they seem to have had a fall out,only 5 kids have been invited but Rose isn't one of them.
I would also talk to the school teacher to find out what is going on.Also have a talk with your dd about excluding being a firm of bullying.
I found out my dd was part of a group excluding a girl in primary school.When I asked her about it she lied and said it was the others.I said that I hoped that was true because I would be disappointed if she was being a bully and explained how it was bullying.The behavior of these girls stopped thankfully and the teacher also gave the class a lesson on different kinds of bullying.

OP I am with your DD. She doesn't want toxic guests. Don't invite her.

The most overused bloody word on MN!

She's FOUR. She's a little kid - wasn't that long ago she was a toddler!

She is not toxic!

I'm thinking about being straight up with the mum (who I know a bit) & just ask if she's had any feedback from the school about Rose's transition & then listen if she wants to talk & if she asks, tell her what my daughter said & ask if Rose has mentioned any fall outs etc?

Please don't do this. It is absolutely none of your business as to whether she's discussed her daughter's transition into school with the teacher.

If you have concerns about Rose and your daughter, speak to the teacher.

As for the party, no I probably wouldn't invite Rose, unless the feedback from the teacher was that both Rose and your daughter were behaving equally badly to each other. If it IS one sided, and Rose is being nasty to your daughter, then definitely don't invite her.

I wouldn’t invite Rose. I’d invite who my dd wanted, if it’s a small party and she’s sure which friends she wants.
I’d also have a quiet word with the teacher. That might help Rose.

Her priority is her dd not someonw elses child who hits her, scratches her and calls her names. Why on earth would she invite someone like that uo her dds party?

Well I'm capable of supervising four year olds when I'm on my own, so the OP with the support of parents is not going to have a situation where a feral child is going to go around wreaking havoc.

Tbh, Hiddley your follow up to that question didn't actually answer the question.

No one was questioning anyone's ability to manage the behaviour of a four year old at a birthday party. Or challenging yours.

There is a bigger picture here and you are failing to see it.

Why would the OP priortise Rose's wants over her own daughter's needs?

Oh and I didn't know what FTW meant either.

Please don't do this. It is absolutely none of your business as to whether she's discussed her daughter's transition into school with the teacher.

Totally agree with this.

You can ask how she is getting on. How she's finding the longer day. You can share your daughter's own experiences (generally, not wrt Rose) and if she wants to say something she will. Starting school is a tricky time for all children, not just the ones who express it by hitting their friends. Rose doesn't deserve any more special treatment than your daughter and it might well benefit her to be able to encourage other friendships.

Also wrt the party, I personally wouldn't invite Rose. Nursery friendships are not set for life. I think it's fine to say "She's only invited 5/6 children from the class and Rose wasn't one she chose [because it is a bit cheeky to presume]. Do you fancy a trip to the park on Saturday?" or whatever.

This all feels like a big deal at the moment, but you'll realise very quickly that it happens all the time. I've not invited someone who thought they would be, mine haven't been invited to friends' parties. It's just life.

Rose isn't going to be traumatised; you're not going to be a social outcast; and if Rose's mum gets upset about it, then she's going to have to learn to toughen up pretty quickly.

No one has the right to be invited to another person's celebration.

It's fine.

FWIW... When my daughter started school, she went with one other child from her nursery. They are now friends, but Reception and KS1 were a nightmare. The other girl was unkind to my daughter. It was never physical but there was constant clinginess, competition, comparison and put downs from her that found my daughter lacking and confused and irritated the hell out of her.

Of course I explained that this girl might be finding it tricky moving to school and establishing her own place etc but, ultimately, I told my daughter that she had to be kind, but didn't have to be friends/play with someone who was upsetting her.

Because she didn't.

I had a mother who didn't ever listen to me as a child. Who never prioritised me over other people no matter how badly I was treated. This isn't the thread for it, but it taught me a very important lesson in life; that I, and my feelings, didn't matter.

Yes, this is only a birthday party, but it's also an opportunity for the OP to show her daughter that she has her back, that her feelings are valid and that, sometimes, you have to put yourself first. And if you can't do that at your own birthday party when you are 4, when can you?

Ha! Yes I think we did cross-post op.

I think a play date is a good idea for lots of reasons but primarily:

• You and Rose’s Mum can see the dynamic first hand.
• It will help avoid potential awkwardness with Rose’s mum should the outcome be not inviting Rose to the party.

I love GreenTulips idea about making it outdoors and I will certainly be stealing the ‘receive a text’ suggestion for myself in future situations where I need a quick exit

Obviously it wouldn’t be great to force this idea on your dd, but one (short) iffy play date with a swift exit option built in is far, far better than having her fifth birthday party spoilt by worry or unkind behaviour, or the op being maligned as cruel for excluding Rose.

I also agree with a previous poster who pointed out that children need to learn the natural consequences of their behaviour: Be mean/bossy/unkind on a play date = don’t get a party invitation.

Pestering you about your party plans is bloody cheeky.
Your child's birthday is for your child, you don't owe it to anyone just because they happened to be in the same class.

Ask your dd if she wants to have a playdate with Rose, no point if she doesn't want to it will probably be unsuccessful. Just text mum, Dd is having a small party with a few friends, unfortunately Rose and dd are not getting along and don't play with each other, so dd has said she doesn't want her at her party. If she wishes further, then tell her dad says that Rise hits and pushes dd and calls her name's, therefore they are not friends and dd does not want her at her party.

I would ignore the text, just invite dd friends, if asked again then tell her this.

This is simple : hi Rose mum. Thanks for asking about dd birthday. Dd just having a few friends round that she plays with at school. Take care

No need for all this hooha, unwanted playdates with a child she does not like, asking teacher about Rose. It helps your having a small party, not whole class party.

I had a situation like this a few years ago when DS was around 6. I told the other boys mum that we were only inviting 6 children and that unfortunately I couldn't ask her DS because of issues between the boys. My DS was bloody terrified of him by this point and I'd had enough of the bruises and scratches on him. It was horrible and I felt lousy about it and i know she was hurt. I worried about it for weeks but the reality was that it would have been awful for DS and some of the other kids who were also being targetted. 7 years later and the boys are fairly good friends now which I'm pleased about.

Agree with Aero. No need for it to be a big deal. The op has already seen Rose's behaviour first hand in the playdround. I'd no sooner be arranging a play date or deliberately bumping into a child who picks on mine than I would be inviting them to her party.
No need to write Rose off. Her behaviour may change and your dd may want to be friends with her again. If that happens do the play date then.

I am about all the playdate stuff. The OP is friends with Roses mum (assuming she doesn't flounce) so it is perfectly reasonable for them to have a playdate even if the girls aren't best friends. But don't have one to 'observe the dynamic' let them be and make friends with who they want to.

It would be perfectly reasonable for the op to meet up with Roses mum for drinks or coffee without the kids. Not reasonable for her to force what will likely be an unpleasant play date on her dd.

Oh fgs kids don't get on with anyone all the time. If I want to meet up with a friend I do regardless of if the children are best friends.

There’s a difference between not being best friends and being hit, scratched and called names. I wouldn’t be keen to arrange a play date with a child who behaved like that. If you would then fair enough.
When I have play dates and I’m friendly with the mum the kids tend to (mostly) play by themselves and the mums chat. Having to hover over a child who doesn’t behave well and my child doesn’t want there isn’t my idea of fun.

We don't know what it going on. The most likely thing is that the girls have fallen out and it's a storm in a teacup. Adults overreacting is unlikely to help.

No need for a bit hooha, and to force a playdate on dd when she clearly isent keen on this child.

Hi there

Dr is having a small party with friends she likes and plays with at school.

Take care

Op

Could your dd and her friends be bullying rose at school by excluding. If she is the loner in the class then it's possible.