Male postnatal depression

[Foxysoxy01]

Just caught a bit of This Morning with my coffee and they are talking about male postnatal depression.

Now I understand it is a massive change to both parents with a new baby and can quite believe that it could cause stress and worry, even depression for the non birthing partner but why would it have to be postnatal depression which feels more female and is a term used for women who have given birth?

The thing I have an issue with (maybe I'm an unreasonable cynical cow) does it not seem another thing that men have to take away from women?
It feels a little bit like taking away a real horrible issue that women who have given birth sometimes face and making it all about men again and how very hard they have it.

My AIBU is I'm I being a real in empathetic bitch or is this just another case of men having to take over women's experiences and issues? Or is it just a word I'm getting hung up on and technically it is actually correct that they may have postnatal depression?

I think they should be named differently

I think it is a serious issue

I suspect this will now be the "cause" of every man who suddenly becomes totally useless once a baby arrives, totally unable to do night feeds or comfort a crying newborn.

Cue hundreds of threads of women on MN crying their eyes out because they feel awful for minimizing their DH's PND but they'd really like some help and are drowning in infant care, and cue hundreds of responses saying "depression is so hard, you need to understand that he's going through a rough time and may not be able to be his best right now."

Also cue men saying they simply MUST continue to devote as much time to their hobbies after a child is born, because they're staving off PND, how noble of them! And wives feeling blackmailed into letting it happen, even if they get no time to themselves because of it, because forcing him to stay home more and take care of his child would be tantamount to triggering his depression.

"Man depression" is like "man flu." Yes, men sometimes get the flu. Yes, men sometimes get depressed. But there's a certain kind of man who thinks every sniffle is the flu and that he gets to be royalty spending his time in bed all day for a week, while his poor wife with the same sniffle has to do everything she normally did AND wait on him hand and foot.

Similarly, there's "man depression" that somehow manifests as men being able to do everything they have a serious interest in, while neglecting any unpleasant or boring duties and obligations. They'll be able to devote dozens of hours a week to preferred activities, even those requiring the kind of focus and dedication not usually associated with clinical depression, but unable to do responsible, grownup things that aren't fun or nice.

For every man who has something like actual PND, ten will have "man depression." You'll start to see the threads within the year, watch. In fact, it's already starting -- women who talk about their husbands becoming self-centered and irresponsible after the birth of a baby are now told by well-meaning posters, "Are you sure he doesn't have PND?", because making excuses for men is what some women have been trained to do from birth.

Though why does it need a specific term for men? More complex for women for obvious reasons.

Why is depression not enough?

Sorry, grandiose I'm not biting, lovey.

I stand by my opinion.

My DH had horrible depression after the birth of our DC, the highly traumatic birth was part of the issue, followed by sleep deprivation and then concerns about being able to parent to a good enough standard. Neither of us were expecting this and it came as a total shock to both of us. This was depression brought on by the birth of our children, so technically I believe it was post natal depression. If this was talked about more we would have be prepared for the possibility, all the health professionals were concerned about checking my mental health but no one paid any attention to the mental health of my DH.

@grandioseOtter are you a MRA? You seem rather angry at women.

Actually I think it’s an issue. My dh has it and it came out in ways which were hard for me to handle - his anxiety could become anger. It impacted me, I lost confidence and I was treated by health professionals as having the problem as I couldn’t explain the pressure I was under from him. No one recognised it was coming from him. Later on he could recognise it but it was a massive issue for us in the early days. I wish a hcp had questioned how my husband was coping. In the early days I’d toddle off the the gp and ask about his worries on his behalf about our son but it sounded like it was me; it was only later on I twigged to say “I’m not worried but my husband is” and then later on “take him to the gp yourself!”

Women using PND as an excuse for their laziness grates on you equally, I'm sure.

A doctor you say?

I don't believe that men suffer from depression more than women is a clinical fact

Agree that they can get PND though

PND should remain a term for women. Men can get depression after the birth of a child but they don't have the hormonal and physical changes that women do. Men are also more likely to become abusive during pregnancy and a baby coming along, they don't need to be given a gift wrapped medically approved reason for why they are now treating their partner like shit. I too have seen posters on here, run ragged with sleepless nights and child care whilst their partner is being an arsehole be told to be kind, he might have PND.

stitch

I think there should be separate terms

I think it is good that it is being discussed and recognised.

Part of me is uncomfy with the use of the term PND to describe it, however I can also see why it is because it is a known, ‘understood’ diagnosis so in that sense it makes sense.

The important part though is it is a mental health issue being recognised and discussed.

I'm not sure they should be giving it the same label as it undoubtedly clouds the issue. Women who have given birth have hormones and physical changes to grapple with.

However, presumably extending a similar recognition (but not the same) to men would have the effect of rightly legitimizing similar feelings in women who have adopted, which could only be good.

Thats a good point black

Some men get depressed after the birth of their children. As they do not experience the hormonal changes or physical trauma it may be less common but certainly an observable occurence. Leaving that unaddressed helps no one, certainly not the new mother or the baby. Raising the alarms that this will lead to men faking it for attention plays into the exact sexist stereotypes that lead to men seeking MH help at lower rates, trying to "muscle through it" and generally making it awful for themselves and everyone around them.

If giving it a different name makes a difference then fine. But I can't help but wonder, had the issue been raised with a name such as "paternal depression" a number of people would be sarcastically wondering why men needed their own special name so as not to catch girl cooties.

Personally, I don't think it matters whether the PND sufferer is male or female. The fact is, the person needs support - for the sake of the baby as much as the sufferer - not belittling or minimalising. Surely some of the comments on here will make men who are depressed after becoming parents be less likely to speak up? And in the longer run, the DC and the partner will suffer if the person doesn't get support?

On a different note, I think it's harder to distinguish what is hormonal than people realise. Since becoming a mum I've noticed 'baby brain' affects me, the sound of a crying baby triggers a maternal instinct I never knew I had and the most tame of a sentimental news story will have me sobbing. The difference is, DS is adopted! Don't get me wrong, in no way am I suggesting this is akin to PND. I am simply saying that things I'd previously attributed to hormones are clearly more to do with an innate instinct.

Pre adopting, our social worker and HV both spent a lot of time talking about post adoptive depression. I know from adoption communities, it is a very real thing. Again, it can't be hormonally driven. Sadly, however, adoptive parents with PAD feel obliged to 'hide' their suffering (and shame) as much of society assumes it can't be equated to the suffering of those with PND as no hormones are involved - indeed adoptive parents should just feel 'lucky' they are parents at all.

Not sure how much sense I am making, but I guess my point is, let's not play Depression Top Trumps. If a parent needs help with their mental health, then they deserve that help without judgement.

satellite

As black said another term may be easier for adoptive parents to use

Postnatal or post partum depression/illness/psychosis are the result of hormonal changes in the mother as a result of pregnancy/childbirth (as is the less well publicised antenatal depression/illness/psychosis). It can be very serious, sometimes resulting in self harm or harm to the baby.
Men can't suffer from these illnesses as they don't undergo the specific underlying hormonal changes. However men can become depressed as a result of fatherhood for a variety of reasons, including (as suggested upthread) PTSD after witnessing or being part of a difficult birth - but it is a completely different thing.

born The NHS would actually disagree with you on that point.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/postnataldepression/Pages/Introduction.aspx

"It can also affect fathers and partners, although this is less common."

and this, from the 'myths about PND'' section: "Postnatal depression is entirely caused by hormonal changes. It's actually caused by many different factors."

Hormonal changes aren't just a result of giving birth. All that stuff about skin-to-skin being good for bonding? That's because it releases serotonin. It works for birth mothers, adoptive mothers, fathers, grandparents ... Ditto looking your child in the eye, washing them, changing them. Being woken up at 4am by a screaming child releases adrenaline, whether you're a birth mother, an adoptive parent, a dad, or a next door neighbour. And lack of sleep results in all sorts of hormonal changes, whatever the reason.

Yes, of course, giving birth also results in massive hormonal changes. But so does being a dad or any other sort of carer.

I think black is spot on. This isn't taking something away from women. It's acknowledging that PND is about more than giving birth.

PND should remain a term for women. Men can get depression after the birth of a child but they don't have the hormonal and physical changes that women do. Men are also more likely to become abusive during pregnancy and a baby coming along, they don't need to be given a gift wrapped medically approved reason for why they are now treating their partner like shit.

This 100%.