Male postnatal depression

[Foxysoxy01]

Just caught a bit of This Morning with my coffee and they are talking about male postnatal depression.

Now I understand it is a massive change to both parents with a new baby and can quite believe that it could cause stress and worry, even depression for the non birthing partner but why would it have to be postnatal depression which feels more female and is a term used for women who have given birth?

The thing I have an issue with (maybe I'm an unreasonable cynical cow) does it not seem another thing that men have to take away from women?
It feels a little bit like taking away a real horrible issue that women who have given birth sometimes face and making it all about men again and how very hard they have it.

My AIBU is I'm I being a real in empathetic bitch or is this just another case of men having to take over women's experiences and issues? Or is it just a word I'm getting hung up on and technically it is actually correct that they may have postnatal depression?

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

Of course men don't get post-natal depression. They could be depressed after the birth of their child, it's not the same thing.

This. And I thought the same thing, it’s like men are appropriating something only women can experience.

Disclaimer: I am NOT denying that men can experience depression after the birth of a child. But what they experience is NOT the same as postnatal depression.

[shaggedthruahedgebackwards]

YANBU

PND is specific to women who have recently given birth. A male (or female) co-parent can of course experience an episode of depression after becoming a parent but it is not PND and shouldn't be referred to as PND. Same as an adoptive parent can experience depression after adoption process but it is not PND. That doesn't mean it is any less worthy of treatment or empathy.

[messyjessy17]

If men can have postnatal depression, that means they also get premenstrual tension if they feel tense when their wife is due her period....

[sayyouwill]

My DH suffered from depression following the birth of our son. He's reached some very, very low points. Call it whatever the hell you want, it doesn't make the condition easier to deal with.

[NemoRocksMyWorld]

I also feel very uncomfortable with the term being used for men. I do understand all the points that have been raised. I also suspect that men and women have similar rates of depression, but that seeking help is more acceptable for women and so more is diagnosed.

However I strongly feel that pnd is post childbirth in your actual body. There are huge changes in a new mums body, also hormonal shifts, also breast feeding attempts etc. It is a big life change and as with most life changes anyone can have a reactive depression... But if we call it postnatal depression where does it end.. Can grandparents get it? Can aunts and uncles get it? At this point I feel there is a real risk of diluting any interventions to specifically target pnd.

I don't think that's minimising men's experiences...... But it is a fundamentally different experience and so I think it's fine to call it something different.

[donquixotedelamancha]

"Most of the men I've seen "depressed" after birth are emotionally blackmailing their wives into sex earlier than the wife wants to have it."

"this will now be the "cause" of every man who suddenly becomes totally useless once a baby arrives, totally unable to do night feeds or comfort a crying newborn."

"so can we quit it with the poor menz crap please?"

"Do men have to take fucking everything?"

"does it not seem another thing that men have to take away from women?"

"Man depression" is like "man flu."

I was pretty badly depressed after DC2. It is not nice. I didn't do it to try to nick something from Women. I still went to work, I still changed nappies, I still got up in the middle of the night. It was definitely shit for my DW as well- I was very lucky she's so strong.

I don't give a flying shit what name you want to give things. I tend to think we should let doctors use actual medical terms in the way the medical profession defines them.

Those quoted above and the ones slagging off anyone who quotes the NHS website as an MRA should be ashamed. You are part of the reason for MH stigma in this country.

If there really are MRA idiots posting then I think saying silly bigoted things while pretending to be a feminist would be their likely MO.

@Foxysoxy01. You claim you weren't trying to be goady? You failed miserably. Do the right thing, and take this nasty thread down.

[EllaEllaE]

The divide here seems to be between those people who think PND (or perhaps any depression) is caused primarily or only by changes in hormones, and those who think it's more complicated than that.

If it was caused only by hormones at birth (presumably both c-section and vaginal birth), then sure -- it would only affect women who had just given birth.

This seems too simplistic though. If PND was only caused by hormone changes, then surely it would be easily 'fixed' by just giving a hormone injection or something? It's not that easily fixed -- so it must be the result of much more complicated mix of things: probably environmental and biological and social causes all bundled up together.

Plus if there is only one biological cause, then why do some women get PND at one pregnancy but are fine for another?

I say this as another person whose male partner had very serious, acute, crippling PND for three months, after a birth that was traumatic for both of us. It was very, very different from other depressive episodes he has had before or after, and exactly fit all the symptoms of PND. Until we were able to realize what was happening with him and get him helpbecause neither of us had ever heard of male PND beforeit was a frightening time for both of us.

He was (and still is) very hands-on with the baby from day one in fact, he's a sahd, so has always been the primary carer. The idea that he and other men who get PND are just being 'moody' or slackers because they don't really want to look after their children is insulting and damaging, because it perpetuates very harmful myths that stop families getting the help they need.

A final point: afterwards, we talked openly about our experience with other couples we knew. Turned out a lesbian couple we knew who had recently had a baby had had the same experience: the woman who hadn't given birth had PND, which went untreated for ages because it wasn't being looked for.

[MrsDustyBusty]

Do the right thing, and take this nasty thread down.

What's nasty about saying that pregnancy and childbirth are specific events with particular consequences for the people who undergo them?

[donquixotedelamancha]

@messyjessy17 "Otherwise, why would you take this so personally? Its not about you."

You explicitly claimed it was. You claimed that 'Men' (some gestalt entity that presumably includes me) was talking everything from you.

Relating personal experience to make an argument does not mean 'talking things personally'. My issue is with the unpleasant tone and belittling of MH issues because they happen to be experienced by me.

[donquixotedelamancha]

WTF is with my autocorrect?

talking above should be taking- both times

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

slagging off anyone who quotes the NHS website as an MRA

No one has done this

I am sorry you struggled after your babys birth, it must have been very difficult for you both

[sinceyouask]

I know men can be depressed at that time. I do not believe it is post natal depression: that to me is a very specific condition only suffered by people who have been pregnant. This in no way minimises the very real suffering of men who experience depression as parents of a young baby.

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

I think Woooooo hit the nail on the head as to why including men in the term PND could be problematic.

[Misspilly88]

Ella is right, pnd in women is NOT only caused by hormone changes. That is one potential reason. So I don't see why it needs another name in men. It's still depression in the postnatal period.

[donquixotedelamancha]

"because they happen to be experienced by me."

by men- I'm not typing well tonight.

[Countduckulanose]

I caught that segment on This Morning. It was obvious to me that his bout of depression was triggered by the lifestyle change and perceived pressures of having a newborn. He said he'd had depression in the past. Similarly some posters claiming their DP had PND, did say their DP's already had depression. It is depression. I have had depression, although not around or after the births of my children.
Post natal depression is specific. I've seen friends and relatives suffer from post-natal depression. They required prolonged clinical and therapeutic help to deal with it/overcome it. If I'd gone through that trauma, I'd be incensed at some bloke claiming to have it. Especially since the few I've read about didn't seem to need much help with it- they 'grew out of it after it coming to a head'. Minimising!
I've even read about men suffering from morning sickness. Please.

[outabout]

Although I was not 'depressed' when my DC was born it certainly triggered a lot of emotions that had previously not had an 'airing' and my outlook on life changed .
The expression 'postnatal depression' is not gendered but is of course used predominantly to highlight the massive physical, hormonal and emotional changes that a woman goes through so possibly a term more suited to depression or change that men can suffer would be better as obviously their whole bodies have not been completely altered by the event.

[Ploppie4]

My best friend (a city high flyer) has high functioning autism. He certainly felt depressed and like life was out of control when his babies arrived. He wasn’t taking anything away from his wife. They both found it a tonight ride.

[Ploppie4]

Clearly men do get post natal depression. Their lives change massively too but it’s not really talked about

[Foxysoxy01]

donquixotedelamancha

Honestly wind your neck in. I am not personally attacking you.
I'm sorry you experienced a really shit time but you really aren't getting the point I am making with my thread and are projecting and making out it is something to do with me belittling mh issues.

I've taken a fair amount of shit on this thread, which I feel is completely undeserved.

I am not minimising depression or stigmatising mh issues. I am diagnosed with mh issues myself.

I put a post on here to get different views about a subject I wasn't sure how I felt about.

My issue is with the depression after a birth being called postnatal depression for a man that hasn't physically given birth. Why does it need to be called postnatal depression? Why do you feel so strongly that you can't be 'just' depressed you have to have postnatal depression?

Why would it make it anything less by not calling it postnatal depression? Why do you have to use a term that has been applied towards women for years? Why can you not come up with your own term?

[donquixotedelamancha]

"making out it is something to do with me belittling mh issues."

I didn't say you were. I said the nett effect of the thread was.

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

don

The majority of us havent belittled MH issues, most seem to be saying that men getting depressed after the baby is born is very true

[EverythingRightNow]

Another example is men during miscarriages, I never realised how much men suffered. We focus on the women, which is right, but men need help too.

[Rufustherenegadereindeer1]

No one did anything following my miscarriage

What focus do women usually get?