Male postnatal depression

[Foxysoxy01]

Just caught a bit of This Morning with my coffee and they are talking about male postnatal depression.

Now I understand it is a massive change to both parents with a new baby and can quite believe that it could cause stress and worry, even depression for the non birthing partner but why would it have to be postnatal depression which feels more female and is a term used for women who have given birth?

The thing I have an issue with (maybe I'm an unreasonable cynical cow) does it not seem another thing that men have to take away from women?
It feels a little bit like taking away a real horrible issue that women who have given birth sometimes face and making it all about men again and how very hard they have it.

My AIBU is I'm I being a real in empathetic bitch or is this just another case of men having to take over women's experiences and issues? Or is it just a word I'm getting hung up on and technically it is actually correct that they may have postnatal depression?

[messyjessy17]

PND isn't a women's issue

Like I said in my very first post, are we really not to be allowed anything any more?

[UnbornMortificado]

The only woman involved when I had a hysterectomy was a female nurse. I didn't complain that the person explain what and why they would cut, dice and chop was a man. There was no "you don't own a vagina, why do you think you know more than me?"

I think you (and others) need a grip.

Il use the term mansplain when I feel a comment warrants it. That comment did.

I'm quite happy to listen to male HCP's about conditions that only affect women, like PND. A random bloke off the telly not so much.

I got a grip three years ago when PND led to me being sectioned for three weeks. I don't need the condition mansplained to me.

I understand the whole stigma men still face when it comes to MH conditions, my husband has paranoid schizophrenia. There should be more help and awareness available. Mislabelling conditions isn't the way to go.

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

I think that attitude is the problem here to be honest, the attitude that it is the 'woman's birth and her birth alone'. Did her partner not have a part in making the baby at all? Do you not think it is hard for a man to be stood looking on at it all happening and there's nothing he can do to help

His sperm inseminated the egg but played no part of carrying the pregnancy or birthing the baby.

I’m sure it is hard for men to look on but TBH I don’t specially care - they are not even close to being the important ones in a birth situation.

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

Maybe we should stop looking at each other as either men or women and start looking at ourselves as human beings

When men and women are equal, that would be a grand idea. When men stop raping woman at the rates they do (therefore not treating them like a human being) let’s talk about looking at people as humans

[messyjessy17]

Maybe we should stop looking at each other as either men or women and start looking at ourselves as human beings

As explained, this could not be less useful from a medical standpoint. Men and women are different and have different needs.
Why are people trying to erase us as women?

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

No one here has said men's feelings are less worthy than women's when it comes to birth

I’m happy to say women’s feelings are more important than men’s when it comes to women’s own bodies. That’s a no brainier surely!

[LadyLannister]

Cherry - you do realise that most men DON'T rape women don't you? What a stupid comment. You do realise that women can do bad things too - they might not rape a man but there's plenty of terrible things that women can do. This is why I hate feminists.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

You hate feminists? Because some of them say things you disagree with? So as a result you hate all of them. Okay. Sounds reasonable.

And women do not do "terrible things" at the rate that men do, nowhere near. That's not to say that women are all saints, clearly some women do commit awful crimes. But the scale is massively different, and to pretend otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

It would be so nice to get through a thread about women without a single NAMALT.

Yes I’m aware, what’s your point? Do you think because not all men are rapists that it’s just fine that 85,000 women a year are raped by men? That’s it’s close enough to equality because some women are bad too? 96% of violent crime (including sexual violent crime) is committed by men. They are the ones hurting and oppressing women. I know it’s not a particularly comfortable fact but it just shows how far from equality we are.

This is why I hate feminists

You hate people trying to better your interests and protect you and keep you safe? Weird!

Just so you know, you can read and vote thanks to feminists. If your OH smacked you in the face today you could access a refuge thanks to feminists. If he rapes you it would be considered a crime, thanks to feminists.If you have a baby you ah e maternity rights, thanks to feminists.

I’m struggling to see what’s so hateful?

[hackmum]

The nub of it, really, is whether you think PND is caused by a) hormones and other physical stuff b) the sheer bloody misery of looking after a baby, which often entails lack of sleep, giving up your job and social life, relentless boredom and grind or c) a kind of existential despair at becoming a parent and realising you are now responsible for at least the next 18 years for the wellbeing of another human being.

Or d), of course, a combination of two or all of the above.

I tend to think that the role of hormones is overestimated in PND, and that b) is the biggest cause, while c) also plays a part. In most cases, men are somewhat, if not entirely, protected from b) but not from c). Which is probably why PND is more common among women but not unknown among men.

[Sallystyle]

I’m happy to say women’s feelings are more important than men’s when it comes to women’s own bodies. That’s a no brainier surely!

Definitely, but that isn't what I meant. I meant that a man's feelings are just as important if they are suffering with depression. I probably worded it badly, but of course women's feelings are more important than men's when it comes to women's own bodies.

This is why I hate feminists.

I am sure you have benefited massively from the feminist movement though, right? You hate them while reaping the benefits of their work.

[UnbornMortificado]

This is why I hate feminists

Then I sincerely hope you don't have daughters.

[LadyLannister]

I appreciate what feminists did for us in the past, of course I do, obviously without them we wouldn't have the vote. What I hate - and I should be more clear in my wording, is modern day, militant feminists - you know, the ones who slag ALL men off because a MINORITY rape women. Ones like you Cherry because your attitude to men sucks. So basically we shouldn't care about how men feel because SOME men rape women. How fucking ridiculous.

Without a man you wouldn't have the opportunity to have a child, of course they fucking matter, of course their feelings should count.

And yes I do have a daughter but I teach her that all people matter - male, female, transgender, black, white, gay, straight. She won't grow up to be a militant feminist, she also won't grow up to be a complete twat. She'll have respect for everyone and not denounce an entire gender because a minority might rape women.

[messyjessy17]

This is why I hate feminists

Because you don't understand what feminists are? You hate half the planet because of your own lack of thought power.


Which is probably why PND is more common among women but not unknown among men

It IS unknown among men, You opinion on the role of hormones is irrelevant when we have the facts. They supercede opinions.
Men are not postnatal, they do not have postnatal depression.

I'm appalled that this simple thing needs to be explained to anyone.

[JacquesHammer]

What I hate - and I should be more clear in my wording, is modern day, militant feminists - you know, the ones who slag ALL men off because a MINORITY rape women

So because SOME feminist do something you don't agree with, you hate femininists?

I hope to God you don't have daughters

[MrsTerryPratchett]

She won't grow up to be a militant feminist, she also won't grow up to be a complete twat. Good luck with that. We guide our children. We don't decide who they are.

I notice you didn't address my point about combat stress and Gulf War syndrome Lady.

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

I appreciate what feminists did for us in the past

Who do you think is running the women’s shelters now? And ensuring that funding for services that support vulnerable women is still made? The feminists of the past are still very much in the present?

• you know, the ones who slag ALL men off because a MINORITY rape women. Ones like you Cherry because your attitude to men sucks.

Because I point out facts that 96% of violent crimes are committed by men (1 in 5 crimes in the U.K. are violence against women) and I don’t like this and want it to change? Should I keep quiet about supporting and helping women in case I hurt the feelings of the non-rapists? No thanks.

You may think my ‘attitude sucks’ but I think it’s very sad that you’re more horrified that I am critical of men as a class than you are about the numbers who rape women.


So basically we shouldn't care about how men feel because SOME men rape women. How fucking ridiculous

Who has actually said this? Extrapolations are very unhelpful

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

Without a man you wouldn't have the opportunity to have a child, of course they fucking matter, of course their feelings should count.

Men do not get pregnant and they should not be allowed to dictate anything to do with a woman’s body, even if it is carrying his child.

I really hope your daughter doesn’t get the** same message you seem to be giving here - that no one should concentrate on women’s issues because the sexes are meant to be equal.

It only makes sense to talk about equality when women are harmed by men as little as men are harmed by women. You can’t have equality when there’s such a huge power imbalance

[FuckShitJackFairy]

This is off track but is it a minority of men who rape women? Probably but it's like a larger minority that many acknowledge. What about sexual harrassment? How many men have slapped a womans ass, grabbed a breast, woolfwhistled at, objectified a woman at some point in their lives? I'd be willing to bet this is the majority of men. And this is the problem because toxic masculinity teaches men this is the norm so i think there will be few who haven't done this atleast as teens/students. That's not to say all men are evil.

I have said this plenty on here in light of namalt comments- i was a victim of both male and female sexual abusers as a child. Ofcourse women do awful things also, possibley at a higher rate than reported, but it's nowhere near the same rate as males. Most men may not be rapists but most women will, at somepoint in their life, be a victim of a male, whether through rape or sa or dv or sexual harrassment or some other form of men using their power over us. It's not all men, and it's not no women who do this. But it's a bleeding fecking obvious pattern. Hense mpv being a used term.

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

How many men have slapped a womans ass, grabbed a breast, woolfwhistled at, objectified a woman at some point in their lives? I'd be willing to bet this is the majority of men

I completely agree. Apparently 1 in 5 women have been sexually assaulted or harassed. I’m amazed it’s not much higher. In my circle of friends I’d say it was 4 in 5.

1 in 10 women are raped in their lifetime. It’s not the same man going round raping. It is not ‘a minority’ of men. It’s nothing short of an epidemic. I’ve said this before here - but if 1 in 10 people were affected by a virus then PHE would put the country on lockdown and trigger emergency plans. Yet 1 in 10 women being raped is shrugged of time and again, in every bloody corner of society and I’m fed up. I will not be putting the feelings of non-rapists first. Sorry not sorry.

[FuckShitJackFairy]

Mrs you have the perfect anaology with gulf war syndrom. I have a past diagnosis of ptsd. I had alot of trauma therapy and emdr for it. I attended alot of csa survivors support groups and read alot of literatire geared towards this.

If i had been told i had gulf war syndrom i wouldn't have been able to access help taylored to ptsd from csa. It would have been a damaging term for me, just as pnd is for men who recieve it and who don't need hormonal treatment, breastfeeding advice or to wade through literature about women's reproductive functions.

[FuckShitJackFairy]

Rainn say 1 in 6 - although thats attempted or compleated rape. Rape crisis tebd to say 1 in 10. Other stats come out higher. And yes i can't think of that many women i know who haven't been a victim of either csa, sa, rape or dv. Those who haven't likely will be at somepoint. And they certainly will have faced being woollfwhilstled at, had comments made about their bodies, ass slapped in a bar or similar.

[LadyLannister]

Well to all the militant feminists on here who say they hope I don't have a daughter - I sincerely hope you don't have any sons because clearly you must be eyeing them suspiciously due to the fact you believe they have a high likelihood of becoming a rapist when they're older. Because let's face it, that's what you're saying - these rampant men just can't help themselves so let's denounce the lot of them.

[JacquesHammer]

Because let's face it, that's what you're saying - these rampant men just can't help themselves so let's denounce the lot of them

I can't decide if your comprehension skills can possibly be that poor or you're just interested in goading. I have my suspicions

[AssassinatedBeauty]

@LadyLannister you are the only one who is interpreting what is said in that way.