To not pay towards university?

[Gaggleofgirls]

Just had a very odd conversation with my mum who thinks I'm being very unreasonable to not pay towards my children's university?
Happy to be told either way so I'd love to hear anyone's take and whether you went or not yourself.

I have 3DDs, none of whom are near that age yet anyway. However I have said we will be prepared to match their savings when it comes to wedding/deposit (their choice) but for university I would expect them to cover any shortfall with work so they have the responsibility.

For background, I went to university and worked also in this way.
Mum has said that because I chose to work (I wasn't aware there was ever any alternative and I didn't want to starve!) then I essentially missed out on the university 'experience'. I don't really see uni as a necessary unless of course your chosen profession dictates it, all of my family have been to uni and not one of us has used the degree we went for.

oxfords much higher than average halls rents

Rent at Oxford is not much higher than elsewhere. This is a myth. Colleges are wealthy and they heavily subsidise the cost of accommodation.

In most colleges you can live in college accommodation for the entirety of your degree if you wish, paying well below market rates and avoiding unscrupulous landlords.

Research in 2015 showed that Oxford and Cambridge are amongst the ten cheapest cities in England to rent, compared to market rates for non-students. The most expensive? Loughborough.

You can (and I do) level a lot of criticisms at Oxford for its lack of diversity, but this isn't one of them.

OP funding is now different to when you were at university. Most students will get zero funding / grant. They will be able to get a loan to cover their tuition fees (£9250 a year) but not to pay for anything else

My tuition fees were about 18000 a year in total. My tuition fee loan covered this amount.
My siblings fees NOW are 27000 a year, their tuition fee loans cover this amount.

Yes it's more but it's covered.

Teaching and Engineering can be graduate professions, but not necessarily. Teaching; you graduate either way but do not have to go to university. Engineering; not necessarily a graduate position. My husband and brother are both engineers, just different routes.

No op - we all get it. It was hard for you, so while you are saving money to make their adult lives easier, you won't hand it over for something you had to struggle with to make that easier, because you think it'll be character building to have to work nearly full time hours as well as studying. And if they can't do both, then that's their failing because you managed it fine.

Not saving for your dcs future is one thing, but planning to save yet withhold the money when they might get the most use out of it, because you didn't get any help, is what everyone is struggling to understand.

There seems no logic to that position. Of course going to uni is optional, so is buying a house, setting up your own business, getting married or anything else they might use this money for.

Seems crazy to rule out using the money on funding uni. if you'd fund other choices, it does look like that's not a life choice you value if that's the only one you won't pay for. (And oddly, the only life choice as an adult the state/entire system assumes parents will fund if they can.)

Oops don't think I meant per year but in total?

Op what I think you are missing is that nowadays the amount that a student receives by way of maintenance loan takes into account a supposed parental contribution.

So the maintenance loan is (using entirely hypothetical figures for ease of maths) £8,000 if parents earn under £25,000.

Then they will deduct say £1,000 if the parents earn £35k

deduct £2,000 if they earn £45 etc (as I said merely hypothetical figures).

It may therefore be the case that your DD goes to uni with no parental contribution but already £3-4k down on the student sat next to them.

Anecdotal experience from my 2 older DSs and friends' DC and mumsnet seems to suggest that the maintenance loan may just about cover rent/halls but in many cases it doesn't.

I am also mystified as to why you would fund those degrees you deem worthy at institutions you deem worthy. so you will be telling your child you already consider them to be a failure if they don't meet your expectations.

My oldest went to an ex poly and did a degree I suspect may not be on your approved list but got a job on a graduate programme straight from uni where he earns twice the national average.

He was able to concentrate on his studies because we did pay his rent for him.

I think you are being very blinkered in your approach at this stage and hope that by the time your children reach A levels you will appreciate that times are very different from when you went to uni as they are for me now 2 of mine have been through/currently are at uni.

Why would you want your kids to be restricted to what you and your friends are doing and not aiming for what they want to do with their lives whatever it is.

The best gift you can give your child is education.

mrskeats

I know you didn't say engineering and teaching were non-graduate professions. The OP did.

gaggle
Tuition fees are one thing, maintenance is quite another.

Are you really saying that you managed to pay all of your hall fees, books, field trips, lab materials, food, clothes and toiletries out of what you earned in a student job?
Really ?

Im surprised by that Zoya, I live in Oxford and it is one of the most unaffordable cities in the country.

I had friends attend Oxford in 2001-5 and late 2000s. The halls in 2001 were £90 a week. Yes that includes food, but it was the same price as my private rental in London, when I was attending UCL. That friend struggled massively financially. I can't recall what the later friend paid for halls.

Op what exactly was the point here? You have decided even though the vast majority disagree with you.

(And obviously the financially sensible thing for my friend in a difficult financial position to do would've been to live at home, for free. But she wasn't able to as everyone had to be in halls for at least year 1 and 3)

Teaching and Engineering can be graduate professions, but not necessarily. Teaching; you graduate either way but do not have to go to university. Engineering; not necessarily a graduate position. My husband and brother are both engineers, just different routes.

No.

To qualify as a teacher you have to achieve a degree level qualification, and most teachers have postgraduate certificates.

You have to have a degree-level qualification to be a true engineer, regardless of job title. My dad and brother are both chartered engineers and one of their greatest bugbears is the devaluation of 'engineer' as a title. Dad didn't attend university but was sponsored by his employer through a sandwich course, taking degree-level professional qualifications.

I had no money from my parents so had to work 2 jobs, sometimes 90 hours per week in the summer holidays to try and keep my head above water. I still left wuth several thousand pounds worth of credit card and overdraft debt that has impacted my life for a decade so far. I also only got a 2:2 as the time i had left to study was minimal and i was exhausted. If you think contributing towards a wedding or whatever is more important than helping them make the most out of their time at university then you need to rethink your priorities.

Oh I see. So she wants her daughters to take the work your way up type path even though it's much tougher. Just why?

Teaching; you graduate either way but do not have to go to university.

So you admit teaching is a graduate profession. And no, it's not possible without going to university (or doing an OU degree).

That's why I have been teaching today in a skirt that's ten years old don'ttouch as I've paid my youngest's rent today. I want them to not feel as you do and come out with not too much debt. I feel for you.

What kind of engineer is your DH, OP, out of interest? As you say you're young (so I assume he is) and he's a very high earner?

I think it's really strange that you see helping them pay for their wedding as more important than their education because some people in your family went to school and didn't use their degrees. So your very limited anecdotal evidence means your children should have a harder time going to school? If you want an opinion, yes, if you can afford it you should help your children get a higher education. You should want to give them every advantage you can, not be worried about paying for a big party.

This post makes me feel quite sad. I think education is the greatest gift I could ever give my children.

I think you've taken this to mean I won't support them to go to university.
What I have said is I do not intend to financially support them.

So you'll do what my parents did -- tell me I should go to uni, encourage me to go to uni but not give a dime.

SuburbanRhonda - Slightly confused as to why your stuck on 'graduate' profession. My question is specifically about going to university, as I've said both professions can be achieved without. They don't need to be, but can.

So how can you become a teacher without going to uni? OP, are you a teacher?

I hope not to the teacher question.
(sits on hands to avoid correcting grammar)

Money saving expert wrote a blog on what the "parents contribution" ought to be based off of the student loan size (which is decided by parents salary).

blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/09/02/how-much-are-parents-supposed-to-give-their-children-when-they-go-to-university/

Worth a read! My children are under 5, but we have savings accounts for them with regular contributions. They can spend the money on education, or a house deposit or maybe funding to start a business when they are older.

I don’t know how to ask this without sounding patronising so I apologise in advance - but do you understand what ‘graduate’ means, OP? You don’t have to attend full-time university to be a graduate but you do have to have a degree level qualification. Hence, teaching and engineering are graduate professions regardless of whether you qualify via full-time university study or by employment-based training.

One of the very few professions that its pretty easy to get into without a degree is accountancy