To not pay towards university?

[Gaggleofgirls]

Just had a very odd conversation with my mum who thinks I'm being very unreasonable to not pay towards my children's university?
Happy to be told either way so I'd love to hear anyone's take and whether you went or not yourself.

I have 3DDs, none of whom are near that age yet anyway. However I have said we will be prepared to match their savings when it comes to wedding/deposit (their choice) but for university I would expect them to cover any shortfall with work so they have the responsibility.

For background, I went to university and worked also in this way.
Mum has said that because I chose to work (I wasn't aware there was ever any alternative and I didn't want to starve!) then I essentially missed out on the university 'experience'. I don't really see uni as a necessary unless of course your chosen profession dictates it, all of my family have been to uni and not one of us has used the degree we went for.

My sister didn't pay her parental contribution for my niece but instead helped her find a job au pairing every evening. She dropped out of uni within the year having made no friends. Just sayin....

CoyoteCafe - you seem to have the same views as we do. Education is a priority and we will help any way we can - that has always been a given.

We will probably help with their weddings but we’d rather contribute to their first house deposit than wedding day costs. I’d be mortified if our DD’s career aspiration was to be a wife!

As an aside I find it utterly discriminatory that working is banned at Oxford and suspect any university who tried to uphold a ban will be challenged legally within time. Disgraceful.

FWIW, I have told mine that I will contribute to university if they are a) doing something I consider useful there (i.e. something that makes it likely that they will end up with a job); and b) doing it at what I would regard as a 'proper' university (or an institution which really does specialise in their chosen field).

^^This I'd agree with. The wedding was an example anyway. Everyones got a little hung up on it. Be it that, a house, setting up a business, I don't know whatever.

I think it’s better to help with uni, as you’re giving them the tools to pay for their own deposit or wedding. Or indeed whatever they do past that point.

Uni is getting increasingly more expensive and will no doubt be very different to when you went in terms of fees and what help is available.

If you can afford to help with anything I think education is better but I agree with matching their savings, eg. A contribution not the whole thing and offered when they’ve made steps towards it themselves. Not just handed to them so they think ‘may as well go’.

architect/lawyer/doctor/engineer/teacher

Eh? Those professions all require a degree or degree level qualification, assuming you’re sticking to the true definition of ‘engineer’.

In your first post you ask about paying toward university at all, "I'm being very unreasonable to not pay towards my children's university?"

In your last post you comment of student who are fully funded, "Those that were fully funded were the ones that had money to burn"

There is a really big difference between those two. I suspect that most university students are some where between parents paying nothing, and parents paying every, everything with no student contribution at all.

My DD works in the summer time (full time plus over time, in her field), but not during the school. She's in a very full on program. Working during the school year isn't realistic right now.

OP, are you able to answer my question about how much the tuition fees were when you went to uni?

And which of the professions in mrskeats list are non-graduate professions?

It's a strange example, because weddings are frivolous really whereas higher education/house deposit/business start-up are not. Yet you put them on the same level, or rather devalued HE against a wedding.

I have told mine that I will contribute to university if they are a) doing something I consider useful there (i.e. something that makes it likely that they will end up with a job); and b) doing it at what I would regard as a 'proper' university (or an institution which really does specialise in their chosen field)

See, I disagree with this, it’s too controlling for my liking, money with strings. I supported, gave guidance but I certainly did not have these sort of strings attached,

I have one child at University and one in 6th form.

Last year DD got a decent amount of Maintenance Loan because we happened to earn very little.
But hall fees swallowed up all but £21 of it.
Her course has around 28 hours per week of contact time.
Working in term time is NOT an option.

She will graduate with £50,000 of debt, even after me helping her to the tune of around £1000 a term.
Her chosen career will never earn much, but will hopefully help save the planet.

DS is looking at the possibility of a London University.
Even with bursaries and loans and goodness knows what else, I'll have to support him to the tune of around £2500 a term.
He will not use his degree after graduating other than as a means to an end.

I support both of their choices.
I would not dream of prioritising fripperies like big weddings over lifetime careers.

I was lucky that when DD1 went to uni she got a full grant and there were no tuition fees to pay. She worked during summer holidays and at Xmas to supplement her income.
DCs 2 and 3 had loans but still no fees to pay. They worked and I helped out financially but they were still left with debts which were only paid off after several years.
I cannot imagine how hard it would be to have to find the money for tuition fees and accommodation and food and, well, life's general expenses.
Most parents help their student DCs as much as they are able. It's just mean not to.

Blunt - i'm sure you know plenty of people do use their degrees, they are either door openers, or they are vocational.

Thing is I don't and that's where we base our views. The highest earners I know do not have degrees. My husband being one of them. The majority of my friends and family have degrees and although some of them use them they are all on fairly middle incomes.

Wow OP. Would you prioritise education over weddings if you'd had sons? Why bot go the whole hog and put money into a dowry so they can marry well?

Work wasn't banned at Oxbridge when I was there

I didn't actually say banned, I said students were told not to take part-time work. And was referring to work outside college/university- e.g. working in Sainsbury's. Might be different for different colleges/subjects. And I was speaking from own experience btw.

When I did the legal practice course (for solicitor training), which is imo less challenging than an undergraduate law degree, we were again told it was not wise to work part-time.

My point was that if you spend a lot of time working part-time to support yourself, it is likely to have an adverse impact on your degree results. I am talking in general terms (before we get even more people saying they got top first and worked every waking hour in Tesco). This is why some educational institutions warn against it.

If your children are primary age I don’t know why you are even thinking about it, the government could change university funding 5 times in the time it takes your kids to reach that age.

bubblebubble
As an aside I find it utterly discriminatory that working is banned at Oxford and suspect any university who tried to uphold a ban will be challenged legally within time. Disgraceful.
I doubt it.
Lots of universities actively discourage outside jobs for tough degrees as they result in the kids doing worse academically.
All five of the ones DD applied to were pretty clear about it.

As an aside I find it utterly discriminatory that working is banned at Oxford and suspect any university who tried to uphold a ban will be challenged legally within time. Disgraceful.

Calm down.

Oxbridge terms are eight weeks long and incredibly intense; much shorter than any other UK university. Undergraduates therefore have twenty-eight weeks in the year when they are free to take on any work that they wish.

Colleges take the view that an undergraduate who takes on a significant commitment for paid work in term time will be hampered in their studies. They also tend to have financial assistance in place for students experiencing hardship. Certainly it was the attitude of my college that no student would ever fail to achieve their degree for financial reasons.

From Cambridge University's website:

Overview of University's work restrictions during studies

Undergraduate students are expected not to work during term-time.

Graduate students undertaking a course of less than twelve months are expected not to work during term-time.

Graduate research students undertaking a course of more than twelve months may work up to a maximum of ten hours per week but only:

^on the approval of your supervisor prior to undertaking the work;
where the work is academic-related;^
if the work occurs within a Department or Faculty or College. The work cannot take place outside the University or College

Pretty clear then, regardless of exceptions made at individual colleges. I did know students who did work, but the general line was no work during term time.

what bluntness said, I was just about to post exactly the same thing.

We have 2 at uni at the moment, both doing courses they really want to do. Neither at MN approved Oxbridge/RG institutions but both have good reps within their field. Where we live there is fuck all else to do than get pregnant and work on a checkout... so we support them in their desire to do something else. Why wouldn't you?

Yes but everyone keeps saying about these huge debts. You do realise tuition fee loans are still going. Yes I get a bill with huge tuition fees on it but it affects absolutely nothing. It is not like a normal debt that will affect buying a house or your outgoings. It comes out of wages with NI and tax.

The shortfall is living costs not covered by maintenance loan.

It's stupid that the system takes into account parents wages for what loan is provided. Some people might be earning a decent wage but doesn't mean they have enough to shit out nowhere and give to another grown adult each month. Needs changing IMO.

Yes I get a bill with huge tuition fees on it but it affects absolutely nothing

Why won't you answer my question about what tuition fees were when you were at uni?

And which of the professions listed are non-graduate jobs?

I'm perfectly calm. Not allowing students to work discriminates against the poorer students. Holiday work is really hard to come by and won't be necessarily support you for the rest of the year anyway. It's elitist.

YES I’m suggesting that lots of careers require a degree.
Now I’m confused op. You are concerned about huge debts but don’t want to help?
I have a vivid memory of a friend years ago saying to me that her daughter wasn’t very bright and would only be fit to work in a supermarket
So much success comes from parental support and expectations. I suspect the op’s mum will be the one to help out.