To not pay towards university?

[Gaggleofgirls]

Just had a very odd conversation with my mum who thinks I'm being very unreasonable to not pay towards my children's university?
Happy to be told either way so I'd love to hear anyone's take and whether you went or not yourself.

I have 3DDs, none of whom are near that age yet anyway. However I have said we will be prepared to match their savings when it comes to wedding/deposit (their choice) but for university I would expect them to cover any shortfall with work so they have the responsibility.

For background, I went to university and worked also in this way.
Mum has said that because I chose to work (I wasn't aware there was ever any alternative and I didn't want to starve!) then I essentially missed out on the university 'experience'. I don't really see uni as a necessary unless of course your chosen profession dictates it, all of my family have been to uni and not one of us has used the degree we went for.

I think people have got stuck on my example of wedding/deposit. These are simply things that I personally would have appreciated assistance with.

Yes I have asked mum and her reasoning is they didn't need to as I worked, when I'd spoken to them re forms/loan prior at no point had they offered any help and I'll be honest I never asked just got on with.

Butterymuffin- of course we'd help like that, the examples are simply as they were where we had to save.

Papafran- I've no idea what's average I just know we earn more than the amount mentioned in another thread that was regarded as good.

The government (ie the student loan company) expect parents to chip in depending on their income.
The very maximum is around £11000, but that's going to be a student from a very poor background, living away from home, in London.

If you can afford to help I don't see why you wouldn't want to? Yes, a part time job can do wonders, but helping with the basics (ie basic food, student accommodation, stationary, books etc) so they aren't focused too much on making ends meet and can concentrate on studying. This for me was too much and due to my parents incomes I wasn't going to get much of anything from loans and probably a teen around same age as you.
Luckily my partner has a decent income (which he got in part from having a degree although it's not entirely relevant) so is supporting me whilst I go back. So far (only a month in) we're hoping I don't have to work so can be focused on home and studies.

I think there are people that think working in a basic job is great prep for a career. It helps prove timekeeping, tenacity and hard work but it doesn't enhance specific work skills, get internships or even get you past the first selection test to weed out the least competent. If you get your cv read, it can help. Other skills can count for a lot more.

My DS is in 2nd yr at uni doing a science course. He gets minimum loan. Last year he needed an extra £1500 to add to that for accommodation, then living costs on top, and his was a reasonably cheap self catered hall. His cousin is paying a few hundred more at a different uni.

He had worked before uni and he got a weekend job in uni city at Easter, but his monthly earnings were nowhere near enough to cover the shortfall for halls and living costs.

His weekend job was 18hrs over 2 days. Given that he is now in uni from 9-5 every day but Weds, with a lot of extra work on top of that, there was no way he could carry his job on into term time and cope with his course workload.

Fortunately we can afford to give him a good top-up and don't begrudge it. He is a sensible person and doesn't spend more than he has to. Not having a job doesn't mean they cant be sensible with money too.

Have a read of some threads on the higher education part of MN, there are some very sad cases there, where posters friends dont help their kids, even when they are quite weathy, and they have no choice but to drop out.

It is very hard to say they have to get a job, not all courses allow it.

Its your choice at the end of the day, but just be fully aware that your decision may take away their ability to go to the uni of their choice for the course of their choice. Certainly courses like medicine, vet and such allow no free time for working.

I had to work through university, I had it hard before during and after! But I’ll do everything I can to make sure my dcs don’t have to do what I had to do.
I wouldn’t put money aside for a big wedding, university definitely and a house deposit if we’ve got anything left after the uni costs but I wouldn’t specifically save for their weddings. They’ll probably have to work for that themselves with the job they’ll have after they’ve been to university.

I wonder what the op will think if one of her kids wants to be an architect/lawyer/doctor/engineer/teacher etc etc. All graduate professions.

I find it odd you are happier to pay towards marrying them off than their education! Slightly worrying attitude.

Mrskeats & Blunt - I've asked as I'm genuinely interested to people's opinions, it's certainly given me food for thought.

If you are fortunate enough to earn a good income then why wouldn't you help your kids?

My kids only qualify for the minimum £3500 or so loan. We top them up to the £8000 or so they would get if we were a low income household. They still miss out on the bursaries that their uni give to lower income students. And they have small part time jobs to pay for a few extras.

Education is a big priority for our family.

I got about 1.5k per term so about 4.5k a year? Obviously whatever it says on the bill is that plus gazillions of interest. How is that relevant?

OP, you misread my post. I asked how much were the tuition fees when you were at uni.

I believe it's relevant because if you went when tuition fees were £3,000 per year, you will have come away with a far smaller debt than your children will. For that reason alone I think you should pay what the government thinks is a fair contribution.

My opinion is yabvu. The student loan takes into account household income and parents are expected to help over a certain level. Simple.

OP "I think people have got stuck on my example of wedding/deposit"

well, the wedding thing is pretty striking.

suppose your DD wants to do something very full on like medicine? I worked throughout uni but it can be impossible depending on your course.

I do understand if people feel that uni isn't worth it - certainly wasn't for me - but you can't be surprised that people have fixed on the idea that you are saying you don't feel the need to back education or career but you do see the need to pay for a wedding. Of course people have fixed on that!

If your DD said, at 18, I want to go to uni and faff about, then yes, tell them you won't pay. But the whole premise of your post with the comparisons is just bizarre.

Mrskeats - Exactly the same.

You have also mentioned mine and my husbands professions, both can be achieved without going to university.

Two of these are non-graduate jobs?

architect/lawyer/doctor/engineer/teacher

Which comparisons?

I would suggest you save a fund toward your children's future and decide when they are older what to do with the fund.

I went to uni in 1998 when grants were abolished (if I was a year old I would have got a full grant) and money was very tight even with a full student loans and working FT during the holidays and PT during term time. Even £20 per week from my parents would have made a massive difference to me. I couldn't take advantage of opportunities such as unpaid work experience or a lot of volunteering opportunities to build my CV as I couldn't as the lost income would have meant I would have struggled to pay rent/bills/food

OP " However I have said we will be prepared to match their savings when it comes to wedding/deposit (their choice) but for university I would expect them to cover any shortfall with work so they have the responsibility"

this one?!!!

"give a man a fish, you can feed him for a day, teach him how to fish, and you'll feed him for life".

Seems to me, you have decided to save for your DDs, but will only pay for fish, not fishing equipment or lessons.

If you weren't saving at all, or if you had taken the decision that post 18 they are financially on their own, that would be one thing, but to actively chose to save for them, with the intention of spending the money on compensating them for being low earners rather than spending the money on helping them become high earners, is frankly bonkers, and why noone on this thread agrees with you!

(And working through uni clearly didn't have the effect to make you driven as an adult, if you've never had a graduate level job.)

Work wasn't banned at Oxbridge when I was there. There was a limit of 9 hours per week, and my college employed me- they preferred to make sure you have a decent hourly rate and they could oversee your work vs. working elsewhere

For me Oxbridge was great in that regard, 3x 8 week terms and outside of that I worked, as needed the money (no fancy travelling over summer breaks...)

As a PP mentioned you focus and get on with it. I got a first, but yes didn't have much time for societies

oh just seen your last post - so your jobs can be achieved without getting a degree, that is not the same as saying you didn't use your degree to get them! I have helped with recruitment for roles that officially 'didn't need a degree' to apply for, but "do they have a degree?" was used as a first filter to get the several hundred applications down to a more sensible list before properly reading the CVs.

If you were one of those people, you might think you didn't need your degree to get that job, you wouldn't have made it to interview without.

YABU

It doesn't even make sense to me. I have a DD in uni right now, and we help a GREAT deal. I can't image watching her take on tons of debt while we sat back and said, "some day, if you save your money, we'll match it when you get married."

But education is very important to us. We never had conversations about paying for weddings when the girls were young. We had conversations about the fact that they could be any thing they set their mind on and then worked really hard for.

Being a wife is not a life goal.

Yes I mean obviously they can be achieved through university but don't necessarily need to be. We're both within the last 5yrs too so I don't think this has changed greatly.

I do find it interesting and obviously I'm well outnumbered but my experience at uni was obviously a different one. Those that were fully funded were the ones that had money to burn as such and abused that. I didn't struggle. It was on leaving uni that reality struck more.

As a former university professor, I have distinct view on the whole issue of student funding, courses and numbers, and I think everything about it is wrong at the moment. However, it's interesting to see how many people are in favour of parents paying for their children at university, when there is such mud slung at parents who choose to pay for younger children at independent schools.

FWIW, I have told mine that I will contribute to university if they are a) doing something I consider useful there (i.e. something that makes it likely that they will end up with a job); and b) doing it at what I would regard as a 'proper' university (or an institution which really does specialise in their chosen field). I certainly wouldn't be giving them money for a wedding.

I have a degree, my husband does not.

I've asked as I'm genuinely interested to people's opinions, it's certainly given me food for thought

Then support your children’s education op and whatever career aspirations they may have. Do not write them off at primary age and make decisions that may damage them or put them under undue stress.

The fact you and yours don’t use your degrees, does not mean they are pointless. I’m sure you know plenty of people do use their degrees, they are either door openers, or they are vocational.

I don’t think anyone will agree with you on here.