Does our PM understand this at all? Trans

[DarthMaiden]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/19/trans-not-illness-theresa-may-says-vows-make-reforms/amp/

Equality for everyone!!! Hurrah!!

Apart from the fact that equality means the erosion of rights from 50% of the population.

But let’s jump on the bandwagon of being cool and accepting....and not doing any research into the subject, for example how drugs that suppress puberty can result in life limiting side effects.

Let’s not talk about men convicted of rape who end up in women’s prisons or the medals won by men competing in women’s sport.

Agghh

Veto Mumsnet is one of the few platforms left that you can debate this.

Germaine Greer was no platformed for speaking about this in the past , the talk she was due to give was not even about the trans issue. Same thing with old school feminist Linda Bello recently.

The situation that happened at speakers corner after the original venue cancelled the debate that had been booked because of threats from trans activists and the 60 year old woman who was assaulted.

The list goes on. Many feminists are frightened of speaking out publicly on this issue because of threats and because they might lose their jobs. Well not just feminists actually, many people who are dealing with the fall out from this in their professions are scared to say what they really think.

Maria Miller the Woman responsible for trying to put this gender bill through has not debated this properly with feminists or destransitioners, she doesn't seem to want to either.

Ceto I meant.

It's amazing the female/lesbian sex offenders that get trotted out on these threads time and time again. Like most women, I've had my fair share of creeps but they've been 100% male. That one solitary lesbian rapist sure gets around, doesn't she?

I've had plenty of harassment from men throughout my life but none ever from lesbians. And I feel pretty confident I would have a good chance of holding my own against someone of my own biological sex. Whereas I would have no chance against a man.

The "'you're all so transphobic!" posters do tend to do that @ALittleBitOfButter . I might as well sit in the corner and talk to myself.

The posters that bounce in and tell us we are all transphobic never stick around to debate or learn anything do they?

Actually, I can think of a single time when a woman made a pass at me. I apologised if she'd got the wrong idea, said I was straight. She apologised profusely that she'd got the wrong idea, and hoped she hadn't offended me. I said no, of course not, and hoped I hadn't offended her. She said no, no....you get the picture, it's how women tend to behave!

I know it was said way upthread, but, can I just point out that the leaflet about 'front holes' etc was intended for Trans people to help them through their dysphoria, not trans people trying to change language.

I am all for helping people cope with a body dysmorphic disorder. If a trans man feels more comfortable referring to his female genitalia as a front hole then that's ok and his personal decision.

There are far more serious elements to trans activists' proposed changes from gender to be synonymous with sex.
To take something like the leaflet out of context makes us look like we don't understand the true dangers.

...anything to lessen the shouts of 'shrieking radfems on Mumsnet'

For those people who can’t quite understand why some women are concerned and/or furious about this.

The issue of sport is tangible and happening. The issue of children is deeply concerning. Any parent should look into this. The propaganda that is being sent into school is is nothing short of scandalous. Puberty is being sold as optional.

The entire ideology is underpinned by misogyny. That is something that is slow realisation. Because transwomen come in different shapes and sizes.

Lots of people know perfectly harmeless transwomen who are not predatory, are only attracted to men and are perfectly lovely. And that’s where the disconnect happens. They struggle to reconcile the transwomen they know, with some of the awful bile that is propagated online.

And that’s because there are two distinct types.

Homosexual transsexuals (HSTS) and autogynephiles (AGP).

The first are usually effeminate men, gay and their psyche rejects masculinity (manifested as gender dysphoria). The second have a sexual fetish. They are aroused by the thought of themselves as a woman.

The first group have been hijacked by the second group. The first group are not interested in eroding women’s rights. The second group very much are. They are the ‘transwomen are biological women’ cohort.

For a brief explanation there is a video below. And if it helps some people, the author of the video doesn’t even like feminists very much. So he’s not coming at this from a feminist viewpoint.

The posters that bounce in and tell us we are all transphobic never stick around to debate or learn anything do they?

They're pretty good at reporting others for Thoughtcrime though. I agree it's good that the issue gets debated on MN - at least for a while - but let's not forget all those threads which are pulled

If a trans man feels more comfortable referring to his female genitalia as a front hole then that's ok and his personal decision

Once again I agree, but unfortunately it's a short step to insisting that everyone else has got to use the same terminology because anything else is "triggering"

cinammon
I know that leaflet wasn't meant for the general population and nobody is going to tell me to call my vagina a front hole.
But approaches like that are absolutely colluding with denial of reality. I don't believe it helps self hating women to encourage them to call their clitoris a dick, or their vagina a hole. Likewise men who refuse to accept that they have a penis aren't being helped by encouragement to call it a clit or a strapless dildo.
Denial of reality is not a strategy for addressing body dysmorphia.

Denial of reality is not a strategy for addressing body dysmorphia

But it is an absolute gift to those in the trans community who don't have body dysmorphia. For them it is the passport for full indulgence in their fetish.

If making a GRC easier to get, or making gender identity a protected characteristic actually stopped trans people being treated badly I might have some support for it. But it doesn't.

The lesbian predator thing makes me snort.

I trained and worked in the arts when I was younger and there are a higher number of "out" lesbians within that field than in wider society (meaning that people are more comfortable with their sexuality being known, not necessarily that there are more lesbians in total) and other than a bit of flirting (which I don't count as inappropriate anyway) I had zero unwanted sexual advances from any women.

And these were women that I shared houses with, changed and used communal showers with, work spaces, drunken parties etc.. Nothing. Ever. Can't say the same for all the het males in the same arena (and I'm not including the assaults I've suffered in "everyday" settings).

We should be as worried about lesbians in our spaces?! Get real.

I have been sort of cat called by a few lesbians in the loos of a lesbian/gay nightclub. I was at the club with my (male) gay friend. Can't remember actually was said but they knew I was straight and were trying, as a joke amongst themselves, to have a go at me for being straight in a gay nightclub. I replied something along the lines of, sorry ladies I'm just a faghag taking up space. And they kind of grudgingly laughed. I certainly wasn't threatened, in fact could sort of see their point. But in fact I loved going to the gay clubs precisely because I would not have random men hitting on me.

98% of sexually violent crime are committed by men, not lesbians.

It shows a certain type of blindness from people who think rape is about fancying someone.

focusing on lesbians always works though, the conversation changes.

Lesbians are up to mischief again! Who would have guessed they were so nefarious underneath their practical clothing and Doc Martins?

Perhaps now would be the best time to put them in their place.

Oh, yes, all those sexually predatory lesbians that I encountered over many years clubbing in London. I couldn't count the number of times I was harassed by lesbians because there were none of them . Now it turns out they're all a bunch of transphobic bigots as well. Pesky lesbians. They should all just disappear.

(My lesbian flatmate did, in fact, disappear. He's a trans man, now.)

Years spent in gay clubs, bars and communities too without ever once being sexually harassed by a woman. Plenty of men, but never a woman.

It looks like we're coming to the conclusion it's that one same highly mobile and very active lesbian rapist, who funnily enough never seems to get reported or prosecuted. She's a brilliant derailer though, and she's usually wearing a NAMALT/men get raped too t shirt under her jacket, so she's incredibly useful for making a women centric conversation once more all about men.

I kind of picture her as Franky in Prisoner Cell Block H. Run everyone!

I can't believe how this is taking place without a proper informed discussion.
I'm not really clever enough to understand all the political/socio economic/ reduction of women's hard fought rights of these changes.

My daughter 10 yrs old, was talking about how people can change sex, I don't know where she's got this from - I was . Her face when I told her "actually no you can't ". I have tried to explain how gender is a social construct, but I would love a book or film to explain to younger girls/women.

I heard a mum on the radio say the signs were clearly visible that her son was transgender because he asked for a "fairy" themed birthday party at 3! My child couldn't be removed from a batman outfit for months at 3 - and she informed me she was marrying her friend (a girl).

The impact the "push" at young children/adults who are gay worries me sick. If my daughter is sexually attracted to women when she's older, will she be told shes transgender?

(If anyone can recommend a good book/blog I'd be so grateful)

4th wave now is quite good for stuff related to children, rolling :)

Thank you - I, ve just Googled. Will look for some not too academic blogs. I don't want to "make her mind up for her " as it were, but there is just no discussion. A 10 yr old telling me "yes you can change sex - I, ve seen a cbbc programme!