Surestart sexism

[LeCroissant]

I just got this sent to me by email from Surestart (identifying details blocked out).

When I was at surestart with my kids, a few years ago now, most sessions were, of course, attended by women. Chairs were deliberately kept sparse in order to force mothers to stand up and play with their children. No hot drinks were allowed. No unhealthy food was allowed. At all times we were to demonstrate what good parents we were by never taking our eyes off the children, no matter how tired we were. I once had to go home from the local surestart centre because the two chairs that were available were taken I had nowhere to sit to feed my newborn.

And yet, for the men's session (run at the weekend of course, because we know that men work during the week and women don't) there's coffee, bacon sandwiches and fucking newspapers!!! AIBU to think this is fucking ridiculous?

I've no problem with a dads and kids only session. I have got a problem that they have better catering.

Or more to the point that women have worse catering.

Newspaper provision seems to actively discourage interacting with children. So not only do these men need to be bribed with bacon sandwiches and the promise of "intellectual" chat (wtf??), it's also clear that "it's ok dads, we don't really expect you to join in with your child!"

Yes, Viva. A male carers session is absolutely fine. But a male carers session where the men get bacon sandwiches, coffee, newspapers and 'intellectual chat' when the women don't even get a fucking chair is absolutely galling.

LeCroissant Fancy being angry at being treated like a second-class citizen! Very unladylike.

I work at a Surestart centre, we do have to provide sessions based on what the reach area ask for, 90% of the work we do is evidence and data. Some of the stories on this thread are awful, we would never have a group like this, it is sexist, the wording is embarrassing.

No centre should offer hot drinks as Ofsted simply don't allow it. None of the staff at my centre would leave a breastfeeding mother without a chair. We are welcoming to dads and mums in every session even the breastfeeding clinic encourages both parents to attend.

It's such a shame so many of you have had bad experiences, when ran correctly surestarts can be an amazing support network before children start school.
Though the cuts been made are constant and our budget barely stretches to a couple of external providers so we do most of the groups ourselves. It's not all play and learn sessions and we also have to fund outreach work to vulnerable families in that shrinking budget. you'd be surprised how many of the toys, crafts, furniture etc at our centre are from staff houses because we can't afford to buy any.

Could you be any more condescending humanGnomeProject?

"For starters kids are goats, not children."

Have you honestly never heard children referred to as kids, or do you just imagine the world should only use the words you say are OK?

Do you have anything else on your prohibited list?

'None of the staff at my centre would leave a breastfeeding mother without a chair.'

So would the chair be in the room User, or would the woman have to ask for it?

I know, Never, I should just quietly accept any treatment I'm given, otherwise how will I ever get a man?!!

This surestart centre sounds nuts.

I never went to the "dad's sessions" at mine as I never felt the need, but I went to plenty of other sessions with the kids and my ex... Hot drinks were available (with very clear signage about keeping the cups out of reach of the children), plenty of seating etc.

@just5morepeas

I don't think so

@LeCroissant

You've ignored anything I've said suggesting that this benefits everyone. It's simply feminism. It brings equity, not equality.

I hope you meet a nice 'life-partner' (I get the feeling you'll see marriage as representing misogynist notions of women as property) who cooks you some bacon and you relax a little.

The breakfast is there to encourage an under-represented group. No different to bursaries for women in some fields. The difference is you having a shit fit because it doesn't directly benefit your sex.

Well we are lucky enough to have a decent sized room that we run the sessions in and we have chairs lined around the whole room. We have chairs in every room because the majority of the users need to sit down -breast and bottle feeding mums and postpartum mums mostly.

I don't know what the centre you use looks like but I can't imagine there were many reasons why they only had two chairs for such a large crowd of people. Like I said, the stories on here are unacceptable in any setting regardless of budget. I would have let you in the office if all else failed.

Nope, this doesn't benefit everyone human. It benefits men, as usual. Women are expected to do the hard work with nothing and men are given perks and bribes just to sit around reading newspapers while their children play.

I have a nice life-partner thanks.

Bursaries for women are to counteract the fact that men prevented women from having jobs. No one prevents men from looking after children.

Nah it's just same old same old disadvantaging women. Don't pretend it's remotely feminist

It is sexism. My guess is they’re expecting fewer men and so have laid out a spread. Suggest you make a formal complaint and threaten to go to the media. I also suggest encouraging a protest with the women who attend the ladies group and turn up to the Dad’s event - Surestart is not permitted by law to turn away one sex or another. They can’t get rid of you.

I asked about the chairs User, chairs are deliberately not put in the rooms to prevent parents from sitting down.

Refreshments aside, i don't know how anyone can see "newspapers" and "intellectual chat" for a session where parents and children are supposed to actually interact and not see how that is completely counter-productive

"I hope you meet a nice 'life-partner' (I get the feeling you'll see marriage as representing misogynist notions of women as property) who cooks you some bacon and you relax a little."

As a woman I am not complete without a life-partner.

The more I think about this, the more I am also wondering how the heck you can guarantee 'intellectual chat'?! And who could possibly achieve it while looking after 0-10 year olds and juggling a bacon sarnie, a newspapers and a hot coffee?

I can guarantee that mums with full time jobs are an underrepresented group at baby events (as said groups are not held on weekends). But I see no attempt whatsoever to bribe us to attend a group.

I wonder what happens if you take your own chair.

What a load of crap. It's the targeted advertising I hate too - make stuff for dad's look cool and manly whereby different groups for women are called things like 'milk fairies' and 'cutesy wootsey baby waby chat' or whatever.

I used to go to sure start and walked out of a breastfeeding session after they made a dad a cup of tea. The women who were breastfeeding (and uncomfortable with the man watching them in some cases) weren't allowed so much as a glass of water.

One of the women who worked there also told me I shouldn't co sleep because my husband has needs too. Apparently shagging him was much more important than the extra little bit of sleep it allowed Mr with the amazing non sleeping child.

Jesus Christ. What if you were 8 months pregnant? It's just inexcusable, the only time I would raise an issue with parents sitting down is if they were on their phone for the whole session (and even then I would tread very carefully because you just don't know what's going on with them). I would encourage parents to take the weight off and have a chat though, as long as it's not in a singing lesson or something that requires participation I just don't see the issue with it.

Groups for women are full of details about how the group is good for the child - because when women and children are involved, the only important thing is the child. Whereas with this session, it's all about what's there for the men, because when men and anybody else is involved, it's the men that are important.