Surestart sexism

[LeCroissant]

I just got this sent to me by email from Surestart (identifying details blocked out).

When I was at surestart with my kids, a few years ago now, most sessions were, of course, attended by women. Chairs were deliberately kept sparse in order to force mothers to stand up and play with their children. No hot drinks were allowed. No unhealthy food was allowed. At all times we were to demonstrate what good parents we were by never taking our eyes off the children, no matter how tired we were. I once had to go home from the local surestart centre because the two chairs that were available were taken I had nowhere to sit to feed my newborn.

And yet, for the men's session (run at the weekend of course, because we know that men work during the week and women don't) there's coffee, bacon sandwiches and fucking newspapers!!! AIBU to think this is fucking ridiculous?

Her

Arf

Yeh so women are expected to run about, not sit down and helicopter their kids in the Surestart session, whereby in the men's session, they are given a drink, refreshments, and reading material, ahhh and intellectual conversation. Is this the 1950/60s all over again . I just would not go, and find another more relaxed sessions that treat parents equally.

...whereas in the workplace, positive discrimination often sees enhanced opportunities to encourage women leaders, women techies etc etc. Isn't this just the flip-side of the very same?

Am imagining pipes and beard stroking

Clearly the thing that is stopping women becoming leaders at work is the lack of bacon sandwiches and intellectual chat

Am I missing something? It doesn't say women are not able to attend and there's nothing to say that food isn't available at other events. Besides there are loads of mother and toddler groups.

If it is surestart, they will have Government targets they are expected to reach. Getting men engaged with the centre will be one of those.
They are trying to encourage men in so the centre can reach their target.

I know many surestart centres that don't have enough chairs, hot drinks etc. and I think it's awful. A nice sit down, a hot drink while children can play safely has to be a good thing.

mygrandchildren whilst they may be encouraging men to attend, the mums might be looking elsewhere for more relaxed environment.

Absolutely Aeroflotgirl!

My local Surestart did bacon sandwiches for the dads group too we didn't even get biscuits during the week!

My local surestart was the same.

No hot drinks due to health and safety but bowls of whole grapes for the toddlers to help themselves to. I pointed out the choking risk and they looked at me like I was a loon and carried on serving them week after week.

"Am I missing something? It doesn't say women are not able to attend and there's nothing to say that food isn't available at other events. Besides there are loads of mother and toddler groups."

Yes, you're missing the point!

Them saying "Dads and Kids" kind of implies that it's just for Dads - or why doesn't it say Parents or just call it a playgroup or something if it's including everyone?

The op told you that food and drink isn't available at other events.

There are lots of playgroups - I don't think any of them describe themselves as Mother and toddler groups anymore because most try to be inclusive of grandparent/Dads/carers so why does this group get to exclude other carers/Mums and include perks that they don't get?

not hugely relevant but my DH couldn't take baby DD to baby massage classes because he 'would make BFing mothers uncomfortable'

I really hope things have moved on since then...but suspect they haven't.

I'm glad you posted this - I have wondered whether to start a thread about this myself. All the church groups locally (and the one my BIL runs in another part of the UK) offer special dads' groups on a Saturday morning with bacon sandwiches and coffee. There is nothing...absolutely nothing...aimed at full time working mums! But being a FT working mum is quite isolating too and besides, I could murder a bacon sarnie and a coffee at these groups! Also, the 'rest' I was getting while DH enjoyed the sarnie and coffee was to plan my lessons for the next week. So it kind of worked. But is still sexist and unnecessary as decent dads like DH would just go anyway as they would see it as good entertainment for DC.

The newspapers are something else. Is the taxpayer paying for all this?! I suppose churches are entitled to use their funds how they wish.

I stopped going to Surestart sessions because of what op described, also my ds did not like them, as tgey were very regimented, toddlers had to sit down and eat snack and listen to a story, even if they did not want to, and go and play. I was feeding ds (he was about 15 months at the time), and was told that he had to sit down for snack. I say no, he is tired and having some milk and does not want snack. He was grizzly, I took him home shortly after fir a nap

I did consider rocking up to some of these groups to see what they'd say (if I hadn't actually needed the time to work on a Saturday a.m.). Wish I had now!

'Do you not think that men should be encouraged to do these activities in the same way women should be encouraged to work?'

Sorry, WTAF? Women should be encouraged to work??? Sorry what? Are you serious?

'whereas in the workplace, positive discrimination often sees enhanced opportunities to encourage women leaders, women techies etc etc. Isn't this just the flip-side of the very same?'

Positive discrimination in the workplace is there to counteract the fact that for centuries men actively prevented women from working. There is nothing to prevent men from looking after their children - this is a bribe to coax them do the parenting that they should be doing anyway. Women don't prevent men from looking after their children, far from it. Men just don't do it because they can't be bothered.

'Am I missing something? It doesn't say women are not able to attend and there's nothing to say that food isn't available at other events. Besides there are loads of mother and toddler groups.'

Yes, you are missing lots of things. It's a group specifically for male carers - it doesn't say that women are not able to attend but I would imagine most women would be put off by the fact that it is targeted at men and doesn't say women are welcome. Food isn't available at other events, I know that because I've been to them. There are loads of mother and toddler groups, but my point is that this is a government run group, and that men are given perks that are never offered to women.

Whoever asked if it was sent by DM - yes it was!

There is no positive discrimination. Positive action is not the same as positive discrimination FFS.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8177447/Equality-Act-explained-positive-discrimination-versus-positive-action.html

People sit around thinking the world's gone to hell because we employ underqualified women in fucking droves. Look around please.

Hang on. Women and toddler groups are okay but dad's and kids isn't? Also the OP doesn't know if the other groups don't get hot food just that years ago they didn't. Wish people on MN would stop filling in the missing bits to fill their own narrative.

MancLife, I know for a fact that there aren't any sessions targeted at women that serve bacon sarnies, coffee and newspapers, because I get all of the information about events (that's why I got this one).

@LeCroissant

You're very angry.

There are plenty of factors which stop men from being as active parents as women. Fro a start, they are in paid employment for more hours than women.

"Men just don't [look after their children] because they can't be bothered."

What do you base this on?

If someone gave you a bacon roll in the morning, would you be happier with your lot in life?

Yes I am angry, thanks for noticing.

I based the can't be bothered thing on the fact that men have to have a bribe to get them to go groups like this.

I would be happy to get a bacon roll, but I don't get one, because I'm a woman.