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AIBU?

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Original poster

Surestart sexism

361 replies

LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 16:24

I just got this sent to me by email from Surestart (identifying details blocked out).

When I was at surestart with my kids, a few years ago now, most sessions were, of course, attended by women. Chairs were deliberately kept sparse in order to force mothers to stand up and play with their children. No hot drinks were allowed. No unhealthy food was allowed. At all times we were to demonstrate what good parents we were by never taking our eyes off the children, no matter how tired we were. I once had to go home from the local surestart centre because the two chairs that were available were taken I had nowhere to sit to feed my newborn.

And yet, for the men's session (run at the weekend of course, because we know that men work during the week and women don't) there's coffee, bacon sandwiches and fucking newspapers!!! AIBU to think this is fucking ridiculous?

Surestart sexism
OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 18/10/2017 18:57

I had some sympathy with your point at first- it's a fairly odd and amateurish advert, as if someone has only heard of men and never met one. When you are saying shit like this, however....

"Women don't prevent men from looking after their children, far from it. Men just don't do it because they can't be bothered."

..then I think you are the one who's sexist. If the father of your kids doesn't look after them, then that's your poor choice. Men don't all act the same any more than women, short people, northerners, christians, black people or any other groups of humans.

HelloSquirrels · 18/10/2017 18:57

Our surestart is doing this. They do one for mums and female carers too. No sexism at all at ours.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 18:59

So why do men have to have incentives donquixote, when women don't?

OP posts:
HelloSquirrels · 18/10/2017 19:01

They dont? Fucking hell cant someone organise something nice for parents without it getting picked apart...

HerSymphonyAndSong · 18/10/2017 19:01

"how the heck you can guarantee 'intellectual chat'?!"

I expect if any dads start talking about celeb gossip, sports, or nappies a facilitator will quickly introduce a topic such as "the paradox of opera"

MancLife · 18/10/2017 19:02

As is said on the feminist threads "don't like it? Feel free to start your own group to meet your needs" in this case hit food.

MancLife · 18/10/2017 19:03

*hot food

donquixotedelamancha · 18/10/2017 19:03

"So why do men have to have incentives donquixote, when women don't?"

You really think all men don't look after their kids? Unless a bacon butty is in the offing?

The flyer is a (shit) attempt to get men to go to a service they don't use. Clearly by someone who's never looked after kids if they imagine you can do so while reading the paper and discussing proust.

Lots of under-used services offer bribes to increase uptake. Once a community build up, they often don't continue.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 19:06

'As is said on the feminist threads "don't like it? Feel free to start your own group to meet your needs" in this case hit food.'

This is a service paid for by the government Manclife, so it's completely free to those men. How are women supposed to get a free service like that if it isn't supplied by the government?

OP posts:
ParadiseCity · 18/10/2017 19:08

It is absolutely fucking shit, sexist, bollocks. Yanbu.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 19:08

I expect if any dads start talking about celeb gossip, sports, or nappies a facilitator will quickly introduce a topic such as "the paradox of opera"

Grin
OP posts:
Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 19:10

That may be so donquixote, but it's also true in this case that they don't offer that service to women at all

OP posts:
CaretakerToNuns · 18/10/2017 19:13

Misogynistic and Islamophobic, YANBU.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 19:15

That is to say don, that I would be absolutely fine with them offering this sort of bribe to get the service going with both men and women.

But not only do they not offer the bribe to women, they don't offer the service at all.

OP posts:
pisacake · 18/10/2017 19:17

'Islamophobic'

oh fuck the fuck off

kaytee87 · 18/10/2017 19:21

How on earth is it islamaphobic??
Because they serve bacon rolls? None of the many Muslims I know (including family members) would care, they just wouldn’t eat them Hmm

Tawdrylocalbrouhaha · 18/10/2017 19:26

YANBU

Our local children's centre does the exact same thing, right down to the bacon rolls (all the weekday groups get nothing).

The sexism starts with the fact that the only weekend group is the men's group (because obviously all men are doing important work Mon-Fri, whereas women are uni formally sitting at home idle).

HopelesslydevotedtoGu · 18/10/2017 19:31

I've seen "Dad and toddler" groups advertised with promises of free sexual health screening, condoms to take away, magazines, coffee and bacon. Wtf. My husband found the poster really off putting. He likes being with our kids, he doesn't like interacting awkwardly with a group of random men and being given a packet of condoms by a nursery worker.

It feels like they are begging dads to come along.

I went to a dad's group on a Saturday (I was breastfeeding little baby so they made an exception, reluctantly). It was really quiet, the dads all looked quite uncomfortable and the whole thing looked forced. As in enforced jolity.

My dh loves taking our kids to the playground, soft play, city farm, but he found the dad's playgroup quite uncomfortable.

They clearly put quite a lot of effort and funds into it (the only weekend playgroup the children's centre offers, several staff, a dietician did a cooking activity), to me it didn't seem the best use of funds when some of the popular weekday activities are being cut due to funding cuts.

I have seen a few sahd at the regular playgroups and they are always involved and chatting with the other parents (mostly mums).

Topbananaa · 18/10/2017 19:33

I had to stop going to our local sure start session when I was heavily pregnant with twins as there were no chairs to sit on!

We were also told about the 'no hot drinks' policy.
Where we lived before had a lovely sure start with hot drinks, and lots of chairs.... and surprise surprise was really well used!

donquixotedelamancha · 18/10/2017 19:35

"But not only do they not offer the bribe to women, they don't offer the service at all."

What service? Do you mean they don't offer women only sessions? That is an allowable exception under equality legislation to encourage minority users to take up the service.

There are many more examples of women only spaces for government and charity services than men only. It's pretty obvious why that often benefits women.

Even if you think positive action and separate spaces are bad, it doesn't excuse your sexism.

P.S. I'm not arguing the service is reasonable- the flyer seems silly and the outcome may well be sexist. You know what your center offers to all parents better than me.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 19:36

They don't offer any sessions at all to women at the weekend.

OP posts:
Normalserviceissuspended · 18/10/2017 19:37

Sure start have always done dads only sessions- there used to be discrete funding. Some of it is contact sessions in disguise.

BlackeyedSusan · 18/10/2017 19:37

you have left identifying stuff in. you can tell whereabouts you are from roughly.

Original poster
LeCroissant · 18/10/2017 19:40

I don't mind it being a dads only session Normal, as I said, it's the fact that the dads are offered bacon sandwiches, coffee and newspapers when at the regular sessions there aren't even chairs.

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 18/10/2017 19:48

"They don't offer any sessions at all to women at the weekend."

That is shit- I agree. It's sexist enough that I'd have a moan at them as well.

Stop using it as an excuse to slag off men. Men are disadvantaged by the stupidly distorted lens through which society views parenthood, as well (though not as much as women, obvs). Look at that ridiculous advert- blokes will care about how the session helps their child, not the paradox of the opera or whether they have the financial times.

When men finally do just as much childcare as women they will also be released from some of the poisonous ideas around what it is to 'be a man'.